417 Working Holiday (417) - 6 month employer limitation

vision · #1 (**permalink**) 01-31-2010, 05:08 AM

Hi everyone,

I've had a question with respect to the 6 month with a single employer limitation of the Working Holiday (417) visa.

I have been working for a company (let's call it Company A) I'm at now for about 5 months. This company has an association with another company (Company B) that would be willing to extend me an offer of employment after the 6 months have elapsed. Company B is a different company with a different ABN. Both companies are small businesses.

However, my concern is that Company B is located at the same address, shares a phone line with Company A and I may have the same boss that is also employed with this second company.

I have of course read through the relevant page on the immigration website, but it's still not entirely clear to me whether starting employment with this second company would go against the rules.

I have called the Immigration and I was told that "so long as it's a different company with a different ABN number" it would not be a problem.

In any case, I would like to some "second opinions" on this, particuarly since I'd like to claim all of the experience towards my "Recent Work Experience" in a 175/176 application.

Could employment with the Company B pose issues?
Would having the same boss and the same address for both companies raise questions as far as the 175/176 application is concerned?

Wanderer · #2 (**permalink**) 01-31-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vision

Hi everyone,

I've had a question with respect to the 6 month with a single employer limitation of the Working Holiday (417) visa.

I have been working for a company (let's call it Company A) I'm at now for about 5 months. This company has an association with another company (Company B) that would be willing to extend me an offer of employment after the 6 months have elapsed. Company B is a different company with a different ABN. Both companies are small businesses.

However, my concern is that Company B is located at the same address, shares a phone line with Company A and I may have the same boss that is also employed with this second company.

I have of course read through the relevant page on the immigration website, but it's still not entirely clear to me whether starting employment with this second company would go against the rules.

I have called the Immigration and I was told that "so long as it's a different company with a different ABN number" it would not be a problem.

In any case, I would like to some "second opinions" on this, particuarly since I'd like to claim all of the experience towards my "Recent Work Experience" in a 175/176 application.

Could employment with the Company B pose issues?
Would having the same boss and the same address for both companies raise questions as far as the 175/176 application is concerned?

The question of identification as separate employers is mentioned in respect to franchises at different addresses but from your decription of company A not just associated with company B but having a very close relationship, it could be that they could be considered as affiliates of oneanother as mentioned in the regs.

Quote:

You can do any kind of work in Australia and may work with the same employer for up to six months.

The six month work limitation applies to full-time, part-time, casual and shift work.

Workplace-based training is considered to be work. You are able to undertake workplace-based training with each employer for up to six months.

The 'employer' is the business for which you are working directly.

If you are referred by an agency or labour supplier to a business, you can work for six months for that business. The same agency or labour supplier can refer you to another business where you can work for another six months. For the purpose of the six month limitation, the 'employer' is considered to be the business for which you are working directly, even if you are being paid by an agency or labour supplier.

Working for longer than six months with the same organisation, regardless of whether the duties or location of the employee change, is generally not allowed. A Working Holiday visa holder may, work for independently owned franchises located in different areas for up to six months at each, as long as the franchisees are different employers with different Australian Business Numbers.

You cannot stay in the same job beyond six months by using different employment agencies, business affiliates or sub-contracting arrangements.

It'll certainly show up re the level of info to be supplied for recent work.

Quote:

•Certified copies of your work references for any positions held during the relevant period. Your work experience references must meet the following requirements:
◦the reference should show the official letterhead of the company or government department providing the reference
◦the letterhead should indicate clearly the full address of the company and any telephone, fax numbers, email and website addresses
◦the name and position of the person authorised to sign the employment reference should be typed or stamped below that person's signature – a reference with an illegible signature will not be accepted
◦the direct contact number of the person writing the reference should be included in the letter
◦the letter should indicate the exact period of employment, including whether permanent or temporary, full or part time, position/s held, the main five (5) duties undertaken, and the salary earned – positions should not be described by generic titles (for example, research officer, public servant) but according to the nature of the duties undertaken (for example, research chemist, accounts clerk

Whether or not it gets closely examined re breaching the WHV is another matter.

freedomofspeech · #3 (**permalink**) 06-23-2010, 06:39 AM

Hi Vision saw your post and was just wondering how you got on with this situation. Did you find out anymore information that would help clarify it? I think i might find myself in a similar position soon.

Cheers

vision · #4 (**permalink**) 07-25-2010, 05:22 AM

No one seems to be able to give a straight answer. When you call the department they tell you that so long as the two companies are 'different companies with different ABN numbers' that's not a problem. Another advice that I was given is also to make an appointment with someone at the department, bring some supporting documentation and simply ask them about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freedomofspeech

Hi Vision saw your post and was just wondering how you got on with this situation. Did you find out anymore information that would help clarify it? I think i might find myself in a similar position soon.

Cheers

Wanderer · #5 (**permalink**) 07-25-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vision

No one seems to be able to give a straight answer. When you call the department they tell you that so long as the two companies are 'different companies with different ABN numbers' that's not a problem. Another advice that I was given is also to make an appointment with someone at the department, bring some supporting documentation and simply ask them about it.

I doubt that you'll get a straight answer on something like this from making an appointment to see someone in Immi as though they will give out reasonably simple straightforward advice re what visa may be appropriate to consider, Immi staff are not there as advisors and as all Immi regulations are supported by legislation, any info coming forth will not be departing from what is in the regulations.
It is pretty B & W when you look at it: ie.
1.A Working Holiday visa holder may, work for independently owned franchises located in different areas for up to six months at each, as long as the franchisees are different employers with different Australian Business Numbers.
The reference to different business numbers includes independently owned franchises in different areas
But with
2. You cannot stay in the same job beyond six months by using different employment agencies, business affiliates or sub-contracting arrangements.
If Business A & B are using the same manager, as far as an affiliate goes it'd be hard to separate them.

freedomofspeech · #6 (**permalink**) Yesterday, 08:24 AM

I've just spoken to the Immigration department and no surprise was told the same thing as everyone else. However I was recommended to email the department stating the query and situation and include contact details, visa reference number etc. I doubt they would say anything different in reply but at least you would have evidence that you have looked at the issue and made reasonable attempts to ensure you weren't breaking the visa conditions.

The email address given was

evisa.whm.helpdesk@immi.gov.au

Hope this helps someone