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Immigrants already being exploited in Australia

12K views 32 replies 7 participants last post by  Boboa 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all,

Was watching the news and saw comments relating to how immigrants will be exploited by the new visa class being used to supply labor to mines in NT. It struck me as being pretty absurd given immigrants are already being exploited by both private and government businesses all over Australia already.

I am a security dog handler, I work on Railcorp property in NSW protecting trains from vandalism. I am a white Australian however 95% of my colleagues are Indian, Pakistani, African.

I have been involved in a fight with Workcover NSW, Railcorp and the company that supplies security to Railcorp since September last year over conditions and pay and it is unresolved and it looks like I will lose my job and nothing will change.

Its unfortunate that I cannot post images here since I managed to take photographs of the conditions but I will attempt to describe what is going on with words.

Railcorp contracts a security company to provide security officers to protect Railcorp property. Railcorp is a government owned business. Railcorp provides about 45 dollars to the company per guard per hour. The company provides about 15% of the guards itself, it then contracts other companies at around 27 dollars per guard per hour. The subcontracting company then hires immigrant labour for as little as 14 to 18 dollars per hour.

That may sound like a great wage but in comparison to what I earn (24 to 38 dollars per hour, plus holidays, sick days, superannuation) its terrible. I was told by my colleagues that they were advised by my company (not Railcorp) but one of the subcontractors to apply for the dole and they would be paid cash in hand so that they would "have a good wage".

The conditions are as follows: many sites have no shelter, no clean drinking water, no toilets, no lunch room. The supervisors refer to the immigrants as "blackies". They are required to be on call 24hrs. Some work 7 days a week, often required to perform back to back shifts of 12 hours, so work 24 hours without a break. They are fired without cause - one case I found particularly disturbing was an African being fired because a cleaner didn't like Africans being in their lunch room so she reported him for sleeping, he wasn't sleeping he was filling out his logbook as required but he was never asked, just told to leave site.

At the site I worked the 'lunch room' was a dumpster, with its lid tipped over and propped up with a piece of timber. The dumpster was the only shelter on site. It was used to hold refuse taken off the commuter trains as they were cleaned and so it contained feces, blood, vomit, urine and anything else that the cleaners swept off the trains. I have a photograph of this.

I have another photograph of the filter which provided the only water which the guards drank on a daily basis. It hadn't been changed in several years and was used to filter water that was recycled and not fit for human consumption.

The conditions that these guys are working under are 3rd world and they exist today, not in the future if and when Gina Rhineheart imports her own workers.
 
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#3 ·
Hey Zamaussie, yeah I intend to keep trying to find someone who will do something.

Fact is no one who can do anything about it seems to care. We have a very strong undercurrent of racism in Australia, its not out in the open so much anymore but its still there.

If anyone reads this and knows of any organization or individual who could advise me where to take this to get some exposure I would greatly appreciate it.
 
#4 ·
I don't see how that relates to racism? In my opinion it has nothing to do with it at all. More with market forces, people agreeing to work for less and rot the system! How is that linked to all the talk about racism? As long as there are people who agree to work for dodgy employers this will always happen.

Australia has a fantastic system of checks and protection, they could complain to FWA, media or anywhere else. It just means they are not willing to do anything about it. While I'm not against you bringing up the issue and discussing it, I strongly oppose labeling this amazing country as racist.

I'm not white if you were wondering.
 
#5 ·
I don't see how that relates to racism? In my opinion it has nothing to do with it at all. More with market forces, people agreeing to work for less and rot the system! How is that linked to all the talk about racism? As long as there are people who agree to work for dodgy employers this will always happen.

Australia has a fantastic system of checks and protection, they could complain to FWA, media or anywhere else. It just means they are not willing to do anything about it. While I'm not against you bringing up the issue and discussing it, I strongly oppose labeling this amazing country as racist.

I'm not white if you were wondering.
Boboa,
When people are not willing to report you to relevant offices,that doesn't mean you have to take advantage of them. As their employer and responsible citizen and a human being for that matter should be able to see for your self that those work conditions are terrible not only looking at your profits.
If the 95% of the employees were white locals,the employer would have done something about it even without being asked....Danielrm mentioned...

"I have been involved in a fight with Workcover NSW, Railcorp and the company that supplies security to Railcorp since September last year over conditions and pay and it is unresolved and it looks like I will lose my job and nothing will change."....

Its Racism in disguise!!!..It could come from any race, not only white people are racist even black people too. I see that alot here in Southafrica both black and white doing some racist things.

Its a complex matter but until everyone sees each person as a human being just like himself, then we will all try and do the best for others - Selfless Service:)
 
#7 · (Edited)
Zamaussie said:
Boboa,
When people are not willing to report you to relevant offices,that doesn't mean you have to take advantage of them. As their employer and responsible citizen and a human being for that matter should be able to see for your self that those work conditions are terrible not only looking at your profits.
If the 95% of the employees were white locals,the employer would have done something about it even without being asked....Danielrm mentioned...

"I have been involved in a fight with Workcover NSW, Railcorp and the company that supplies security to Railcorp since September last year over conditions and pay and it is unresolved and it looks like I will lose my job and nothing will change."....

Its Racism in disguise!!!..It could come from any race, not only white people are racist even black people too. I see that alot here in Southafrica both black and white doing some racist things.

Its a complex matter but until everyone sees each person as a human being just like himself, then we will all try and do the best for others - Selfless Service:)
I understand that, and I know that. I moved from one of the most racist countries on this planet myself. Racism is wrong, ugly and cowardly. And yes racism can be black, white, muslim or yellow.

But labeling the whole country, it's government and it's people as racist because of rotten few is wrong!

Australia is nowhere near being racist. Majority of people and organizations here are very fair and equality be that black, white, gay or straight is valued and protected.
 
#10 ·
Why don't you feel what I describe is a racism issue.

Also what are you implying by "Besides, nobody forces immigrants to come here and stay"? Are you saying immigrants deserve to have wages stolen from them, their conditions changed and their safety jeopardized because they weren't forced to come here and can leave if they want?

Also on the first line of your 2 line post, you state that's you agree its not a racism issue and then on the second line you seem to be blaming the immigrants for the discrimination (even though you don't think its a race discrimination issue) for coming to Australia and staying.
 
#15 ·
Baboa.

I don't agree with your point below...........

"4. I assume people would do something if they are unhappy, you ignore the fact that if people do nothing about it means they are happy with whatever status or situation they are in. "

You mentioned in one of your posts -if am not mistaken- ,that you yourself, happened to have lived in one of the countries where there was alot of racism. Then you are in the better position to understand that people might not always keep their current jobs because they are "happy with it." There are many other factors involved
 
#16 ·
Zamaussie I agree with, wholly and absolutely. The difference is I absolutely refuse the tendency to use the "racist" card in, what is in my opinion, a fair society. Australian government and people take racism very seriously and they fight it whenever it pops its ugly head up! It is not the fear of being persecuted or being imprisoned that stops people from fighting racism, like in other countries. So if there are so many protection agencies around you can blaim only yourself for what is happening

I think the racism card is abused to the degree it became sickening. If you have awful English skills and you apply for a job and you dont get it, what is it "The employee is racist". If the policeman pulls you over, he is racist! If somebody passes you the flu, for god sake, they are racist......

I'm just absolutely tired of that, and I think it is unfair for this country which believes in a "fair go" for everyone to be labeled with this label.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Daniel...

The issue is a Railcop issue and not much of immigrant issue in Australia. Yes, there are companies/organizations in Australia that will pay less to immigrants. Legally, it is perfectly ok - company can offer whatever salary they find appropriate. The final word belongs to the employee. After all, immigrants always have an option of not accepting the job or choosing another one (and many of them do so). Still, this is hardly racism. It is more like capitalism in its true form.

The bigger issue (common for Australia) is how those Indians, Pakistani, Africans exploit other Indians, Pakistani, Africans paying them below national minimum wage. So it is mostly other immigrants exploiting those more vulnerable immigrants. Small shops, paying cash to hand only, no super, $10 per hour or less etc. This is something that should be looked into and is more of an immigrant issue than what you described.

As I said - nobody forces immigrants to come to Australia and stay. If they are not happy, they can move to another job, another city, another country. And I know many that did. Instead, many of them decide to accept what is being done to them. I am an immigrant myself and I did something with the problem in the past. I was being exploited by other immigrants too (never by Australians!). Some companies paid me less money, some paid me more. When I felt underpaid, I looked for another job and once I found it - I just left the one that did not meet my expectations.

Besides, tell me. If I - as an employer - have an immigrant without local experience, who is applying for a job and I know they will accept $45k p/a - why would I pay them $60k p/a? I can as well hire them at $45k and if they prove good at her work, I can give them a raise to $60k after 1 - 2 years. They will be happy to get raise and I will risk less money.

The law says you are treated differently if you are vilified (for example called "blackie" or "******" by a supervisor), paid differently (for example 14-18 per hour casual) compared to the Australians (24-38 per hour permanent with penalties, holidays and sick days) or treated differently (fired because you're African and in the lunch room).
I actually had a case when my wife (Chinese) was a victim of discrimination by a RailCorp officer at one of the Sydney train stations. He threw a few stupid (although hardly offensive) comments. One of them was something like. "Oh... Chinese always go to Hurstville". Those comments cost the guy his job which he lost a week after we lodged a phone complaint with the head office.

The point is, that if you do something about the problem, you will see some result. Most of those exploited immigrants do not do a thing about it.

Salaries are often based on experience, references, position and predicted opportunities - not where you come from. Also, it is quite obvious that a permanent full timer will be paid more than a casual. It is logical and absolutely right. How many of these casuals actually attempt to apply for a permanent full time either at Railcorp or somewhere else? I am pretty sure not many - given that they usually try to snatch money from a few jobs at once and therefore, it would be inconvenient for them to have permanent employment with fixed working hours.

All in all - it is not racism to be blamed for what is happening but rules of capitalistm which allows this.
 
#18 ·
Daniel...

The issue is a Railcop issue and not much of immigrant issue in Australia. Yes, there are companies/organizations in Australia that will pay less to immigrants. Legally, it is perfectly ok - company can offer whatever salary they find appropriate. The final word belongs to the employee. After all, immigrants always have an option of not accepting the job or choosing another one (and many of them do so). Still, this is hardly racism. It is more like capitalism in its true form.

The bigger issue (common for Australia) is how those Indians, Pakistani, Africans exploit other Indians, Pakistani, Africans paying them below national minimum wage. So it is mostly other immigrants exploiting those more vulnerable immigrants. Small shops, paying cash to hand only, no super, $10 per hour or less etc. This is something that should be looked into and is more of an immigrant issue than what you described.

As I said - nobody forces immigrants to come to Australia and stay. If they are not happy, they can move to another job, another city, another country. And I know many that did. Instead, many of them decide to accept what is being done to them. I am an immigrant myself and I did something with the problem in the past. I was being exploited by other immigrants too (never by Australians!). Some companies paid me less money, some paid me more. When I felt underpaid, I looked for another job and once I found it - I just left the one that did not meet my expectations.

Besides, tell me. If I - as an employer - have an immigrant without local experience, who is applying for a job and I know they will accept $45k p/a - why would I pay them $60k p/a? I can as well hire them at $45k and if they prove good at her work, I can give them a raise to $60k after 1 - 2 years. They will be happy to get raise and I will risk less money.

I actually had a case when my wife (Chinese) was a victim of discrimination by a RailCorp officer at one of the Sydney train stations. He threw a few stupid (although hardly offensive) comments. One of them was something like. "Oh... Chinese always go to Hurstville". Those comments cost the guy his job which he lost a week after we lodged a phone complaint with the head office.

The point is, that if you do something about the problem, you will see some result. Most of those exploited immigrants do not do a thing about it.

Salaries are often based on experience, references, position and predicted opportunities - not where you come from. Also, it is quite obvious that a permanent full timer will be paid more than a casual. It is logical and absolutely right. How many of these casuals actually attempt to apply for a permanent full time either at Railcorp or somewhere else? I am pretty sure not many - given that they usually try to snatch money from a few jobs at once and therefore, it would be inconvenient for them to have permanent employment with fixed working hours.

All in all - it is not racism to be blamed for what is happening but rules of capitalistm which allows this.
" is how those Indians, Pakistani, Africans"
"nobody forces immigrants to come to Australia and stay"
"Most of those exploited immigrants"
"given that they usually try to"

The above are almost picture perfect examples of generalized racial stereotyping.

There were also serious errors in your post -

It is not "perfectly ok" for employers to pay whatever they like, there are minimum statutory wages and then usually for each industry an industry award which prohibits paying less then the prescribed amount.

Casual workers always get higher pay per hour than full time permanent (20 to 30 per cent more)
 
#19 ·
This is what law states about national minimum wage and payments. As you can see, there is no regulation that says that employee needs to be offered particular money (obviously nothing below national minimum) or particular percentage more than a full timer if they are a casual. You may be mentioning this because of some Union agreements in Australia - like the one between SDA and Coles Group in regards to payments in supermarkets and department stores. Although again - company has a freedom of offering more money to some employees and less employees to some other.

Paying casuals $18 per hour is completely legal. Paying casuals $14 per hour is not legal (unless you are referring to rate after tax - because minimum $15.51 is before tax). Also, I have gone through awards related to Rail agreements in Australia and here is what I found

[urlhttps://extranet.deewr.gov.au/ccmsv8/CiLiteKnowledgeDetailsFrameset.htm?KNOWLEDGE_REF=90977&TYPE=X&ID=1486507489215229288889912894&DOCUMENT_REF=244837&DOCUMENT_TITLE=Railways%20Traffic,%20Permanent%20Way%20and%20Signalling%20Wages%20Staff%20Award%202002&DOCUMENT_CODE=AP817741[/url]

It says the following

18. GUARANTEED PAYMENT

18.1 Except as provided in subclauses 18.4 and 18.5 an employee who is ready and willing and available for all work offering shall be paid each fortnight an amount equivalent to the number of hours prescribed herein at the ordinary rate of wage for their grade. In satisfaction of such guaranteed payment there shall be included all wages paid to the employee within the first ten shifts excluding the following:

18.1.1 Employees on the running staff other than guard/second person

18.1.1(a) penalties for shift work and for Saturday time, public holidays and for Sunday time; and

18.1.1(b) any allowance representing the difference between the classified rate and the ordinary rate applicable whilst acting in a higher grade.

18.1.2 All other employees except casuals and guards/second persons:

18.1.2(a) penalties for shift work and for overtime, Saturday time, public holidays and Sunday time; and

18.1.2(b) any allowance representing the difference between the classified rate and the ordinary rate applicable whilst acting in a higher grade.

18.1.2(c) if earnings in the first ten shifts fall short of the guaranteed minimum then payment for up to four hours of an 11th shift with penalty at time and one half may be used.

18.2 Where through genuine illness or approved leave, payment less than the guaranteed minimum becomes due to an employee, payment shall be made at the guaranteed minimum less the amount which would have accrued due to the employee had they performed any duty available to them during the period of such absence. If the latter amount cannot be determined the deduction shall be of one day's pay in respect of each day's absence.

18.3 Where an employee is absent from duty without pay on account of other than genuine illness or approved leave, the guarantee shall not apply and payment will be made for time actually worked within the period.

18.4 The provisions of this Guarantee clause do not apply to Casual employees
Again - no word about 20 - 30% that you ask for. Employees will be offered different salaries depending on their experience and individual negotiations between employer and employee.

The above are almost picture perfect examples of generalized racial stereotyping.
Read my e-mail properly first... There are things happening to immigrants in particular described in there (not just Indians, Pakistani or Africans). If you don't want to open your eyes to see the other side of the story - your choice.

Have you reported the events to Fair Work / Industrial Relations? Given how confident you are about being right, I would say you should...
 
#21 ·
@Dexter

The Award is the Security Industry Award 2010. I don't know of any industry or group where permanent employee's get more per hour than casuals; I doubt it exists. The casual loading is 25%.

I did read your post however what I was commenting on was the way you were stereotyping based on race. You were also jumping to conclusions based purely on your opinion of why an entire segment of the community did certain things (as an example had multiple jobs).

@Boboa

I called it generalized racial stereotyping because that is what its classified as. If I say "all Aussies are racist" then I am stereotyping Australians. If I say "all Indian's work multiple jobs and don't want full time employment" then I am stereotyping Indians based on race. Both of the statements are stereotyping and obviously incorrect. This is an accepted fact, not an accusation.

I think the best thing to do is to agree to disagree. I feel both of you guys are a little biased in your thinking and not likely to reevaluate your positions.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Daniel...

From your comments I am pretty sure that you don't really know how immigrant's life really looks. You are just focusing on the idea that everyone is just generalizing, stereotypes, racism etc. Both me and Boboa are immigrants and both of us (I am pretty sure Boboa did so too) went through that casual stage in their immigrant life. We both are writing about it because we know it does exist and is nothing like generalizing. It is absolutely normal for huge majority of immigrants to go through it. Why?

1. Because it is difficult to find work in Australia without local experience. At the beginning immigrants usually work for other immigrants, mostly small companies and are often paid well below national minimum and often cash to hand. Only some of them are lucky enough to get a good employer with good wage in the first go.

2. There is a lot of immigrant grey market in Australia and they only have casual or on call jobs. For some immigrants these are the only jobs they can get. For some other - extra few dollars. Grey market is mostly created by immigrants who have small businesses. If you go around Hurstville for example - you will notice plenty small Chinese restaurants, herbalists, remedial therapy places, massage shops, supermarkets etc. Would you believe that ALL of them pay no more than $10 per hour and only cash to hand? How do I know? Because my wife is Chinese and some time ago she went through all of them, trying to apply for work. However, I am pretty much convinced that all you see is generalizing and stereotyping that "Chinese pay cash to hand and no more than $10 per hour" and don't really see that there is bigger problem than a few immigrants hired as casuals being paid $18 per hour (for many of them this is actually a good salary).

3. Once you have a few casual jobs you begin to feel safe. Even you get sacked from one place, you still have 1 - 2 more left and you are not left without money. I personally had 4 at some stage and it did help me. It is not easy to believe that actually if you switch to just one job, you can feel safe. I remember, after getting permanent full time in April 2007, I kept one more casual work just in case for another 2 years - just to make sure that everything goes fine. Plenty of other acquaintances (also immigrants) did exactly the same until the point when they started feeling safe.

Indians, Pakistani, Asians (often mistakenly referred to as Chinese) are in particularly difficult position in Australia. There are more of them than other groups and there is larger grey market in their communities. Also, their English skills are usually lower than for example European immigrants (Asians) or their accents are so difficult to understand that locals actually think that they don't have proper English skills (Indians, Pakistani).

Maybe Railcorp is indeed taking advantage of that fact and having possibility of paying less to immigrants they do so. I am not denying that. They don't do that to the locals because they are aware of the fact that they would just quit. I am just stating that there are bigger frauds in job market than paying a casual $18 per hour.

As for salaries - I am not familiar with public sector as I work in privately owned mid size company in IT industry. Even in my team that reports to me, I have some people on $60k and some other on $45k and they all have the same position (their duties are slightly different). Salaries were offered based on their experience and they were offered these salaries before joining the company. It was up to them to accept it. I could hire a casual and pay them $20 per hour before tax and I have also seen no regulation that could stop me from doing this. I have not seen awards referring to telemarketers, data entry (I am not Award Finder now) or sales reps in IT industry. I will be grateful if you can show me award or regulation that proves I am not allowed to do this.
 
#23 ·
Daniel...

From your comments I am pretty sure that you don't really know how immigrant's life really looks. You are just focusing on the idea that everyone is just generalizing, stereotypes, racism etc. Both me and Boboa are immigrants and both of us (I am pretty sure Boboa did so too) went through that casual stage in their immigrant life. We both are writing about it because we know it does exist and is nothing like generalizing. It is absolutely normal for huge majority of immigrants to go through it. Why?

1. Because it is difficult to find work in Australia without local experience. At the beginning immigrants usually work for other immigrants, mostly small companies and are often paid well below national minimum and often cash to hand. Only some of them are lucky enough to get a good employer with good wage in the first go.

2. There is a lot of immigrant grey market in Australia and they only have casual or on call jobs. For some immigrants these are the only jobs they can get. For some other - extra few dollars. Grey market is mostly created by immigrants who have small businesses. If you go around Hurstville for example - you will notice plenty small Chinese restaurants, herbalists, remedial therapy places, massage shops, supermarkets etc. Would you believe that ALL of them pay no more than $10 per hour and only cash to hand? How do I know? Because my wife is Chinese and some time ago she went through all of them, trying to apply for work. However, I am pretty much convinced that all you see is generalizing and stereotyping that "Chinese pay cash to hand and no more than $10 per hour" and don't really see that there is bigger problem than a few immigrants hired as casuals being paid $18 per hour (for many of them this is actually a good salary).

3. Once you have a few casual jobs you begin to feel safe. Even you get sacked from one place, you still have 1 - 2 more left and you are not left without money. I personally had 4 at some stage and it did help me. It is not easy to believe that actually if you switch to just one job, you can feel safe. I remember, after getting permanent full time in April 2007, I kept one more casual work just in case for another 2 years - just to make sure that everything goes fine. Plenty of other acquaintances (also immigrants) did exactly the same until the point when they started feeling safe.

Indians, Pakistani, Asians (often mistakenly referred to as Chinese) are in particularly difficult position in Australia. There are more of them than other groups and there is larger grey market in their communities. Also, their English skills are usually lower than for example European immigrants (Asians) or their accents are so difficult to understand that locals actually think that they don't have proper English skills (Indians, Pakistani).

Maybe Railcorp is indeed taking advantage of that fact and having possibility of paying less to immigrants they do so. I am not denying that. They don't do that to the locals because they are aware of the fact that they would just quit. I am just stating that there are bigger frauds in job market than paying a casual $18 per hour.

As for salaries - I am not familiar with public sector as I work in privately owned mid size company in IT industry. Even in my team that reports to me, I have some people on $60k and some other on $45k and they all have the same position (their duties are slightly different). Salaries were offered based on their experience and they were offered these salaries before joining the company. It was up to them to accept it. I could hire a casual and pay them $20 per hour before tax and I have also seen no regulation that could stop me from doing this. I have not seen awards referring to telemarketers, data entry (I am not Award Finder now) or sales reps in IT industry. I will be grateful if you can show me award or regulation that proves I am not allowed to do this.
HI Dexter, I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you say, just perhaps the way you say it and the way you seem to put all the blame on the immigrants and little to none on the people doing the exploiting. When you do put blame on those exploiting, you tend to try to shift the blame to only immigrant employers.

20 dollars per hour before tax is probably a legal wage for the positions you describe. As a grade 2 dog handler I am getting 24 per hour including tax. But there's a big jump from 20 per hour post-tax to 14-18 pre-tax (minimum wage in SIA2010 Grade 1 Security officer being 16.40) + (25% casual loading) + (30% night shift loading) > 18.00 per hour.

I will look those awards up for you though. I'm guessing they will be around 16 per hour + casual loading of 20% being around 19.00 per hour.
 
#24 ·
As a telemarketer 5 years ago I used to get about $17 per hour and it was casual.

Yes, I blame immigrant employees - or in particular immigrant owners of small businesses. Because it is them breaking law in so many matters that gives guys like Railcorp opportunity to offer $18 per hour to immigrant casuals whereas non-immigrants get a lot more. Simply, nobody would work for such low rate. Instead $18 per hour looks like blessing to many of those immigrants. Other one of their kind would never pay them even close to it. I understand it may be difficult to imagine when you are not an immigrant and never went through it.

Some examples of low rates offered to telemarketers can be even found on seek.com.au

SEEK - Customer Service Representatives - Casual Job in Sydney - $15 - $19.99 per hour

As for other call centre positions - I have seen rates starting from $19 per hour. Usually goes around $20 - $22 per hour.
 
#25 ·
I personally wouldn't go as far as to say that "immigrants aren't forced to come and stay here, so they can leave if they don't like it" - I don't believe the world is that simple. I think a lot of people become immigrants because their home countries are not safe, and I wouldn't necessarily tell them "put up with anything or go home". I know a family from Africa who moved to Australia decades ago so their children could be raised in a country without constant rape, pillaging and violence (which is what was going on in their homecountry at the time). I am lucky to be here for a partner but some of us come here for sadder reasons and to them, being taken advantage of isn't that bad if it keeps their kids safe.

That said, I would NEVER call Australia a racist country.

I actually have met a few Australians who have some issues with immigrants, bad luck on my end because they are RARE I know, and they said the funniest thing; "those Muslims don't respect our culture and want to replace it with their own, so I hate Muslims". It's fighting fire with fire. By letting a few extreme cases blind you, YOU become the racist yourself. Be very careful with that because it is a line *none* of us intend to cross but many still do because they believe they are being justified by one horrible incident or one small group.
 
#27 ·
The great thing about Australia is that YOU can do something to improve your situation.

If you have a job you don't like or it is too hard - then change......
No one is keeping you at work.....
Go and get training for a better job at TAFE.....use online courses.

Go ahead - make things happen - don't just be a whinger and complain.

That is the real Australian - stand up for yourself and your mates - be smart and make change.

For the RailCorp OP.......take your own water to work, bring a folding seat, bring an umbrella. Make it as good as you can to work in those situations.....YOU can make changes!
Make sure you and the other workers are on the Award rates....not more or less.
If they don't let you make change - quit and get a better job.

Good luck.
 
#28 ·
For the RailCorp OP.......take your own water to work, bring a folding seat, bring an umbrella. Make it as good as you can to work in those situations.....YOU can make changes!
Make sure you and the other workers are on the Award rates....not more or less.
If they don't let you make change - quit and get a better job.

Good luck.
This sounds like good advice but its a little naive.

You could not realistically carry enough clean drinking water to work (can't take cars on site nor can you step outside the gate to get something from your car once on duty) to last a twelve hour shift in hot weather nor should you have to when the law states the employer MUST provide it.

Why take a folding seat when you are prohibited from sitting down anyway. If they saw a guard with a folding seat at work they would have him reported and it taken off site. If he was sitting on it he would be sacked.

Umbrellas are specifically prohibited for any guard to use as they can block the reflective vest, everyone else (Rail) uses them but a guard would be sacked as they are contractors.

And no you cannot make changes, I put my job on the line by trying to stand up for my and my fellow workers rights and I lost my job for it.
 
#29 · (Edited)
danielrm said:
This sounds like good advice but its a little naive.

You could not realistically carry enough clean drinking water to work (can't take cars on site nor can you step outside the gate to get something from your car once on duty) to last a twelve hour shift in hot weather nor should you have to when the law states the employer MUST provide it.

Why take a folding seat when you are prohibited from sitting down anyway. If they saw a guard with a folding seat at work they would have him reported and it taken off site. If he was sitting on it he would be sacked.

Umbrellas are specifically prohibited for any guard to use as they can block the reflective vest, everyone else (Rail) uses them but a guard would be sacked as they are contractors.

And no you cannot make changes, I put my job on the line by trying to stand up for my and my fellow workers rights and I lost my job for it.
Pfft please, auditor general found that railcorp contractors are a corrupt waste of taxpayers money. I would shut down the whole shop and get the whole circus closed down. Chair? What chair? I don't have a chance to sit down at my job and I don't complain!

Not enough water? Get yourself a two litter bottle and stop complaining.

Maybe railcorp guys would like us to provide them with a taxpayer funded masseurs? How about a siesta time specifically for railcorp guards. So they can sit by the pool and sip a cocktail, rather than doing what they are supposed to do.

Please, the whole NSW is fed up with railcorp, it's slow ineffective and absolutely unproductive system. Employees of this organization be that permanent or contractors are lucky enough that they are paid by every NSW taxpayer and shouldn't have any right to complain. If that was a private organization half of them would have been gone in a tick of time.
 
#31 ·
You seem to be trolling.

The constant walking at my work caused fractures in the bones of my feet and the plantar fascia in my feet are 4 times the usual thickness and I have to wear medical boots and possibly have surgery. I don't care if you don't get to sit down at your work, you obviously are not required to walk constantly for 12 hours for up to 75 hours per week on sharp jagged rocky ground.

Your suggestion that we take 2 litres and stop complaining is also completely nonsensical. In 32 degree's or above a human needs to drink about 1 litre of water per hour during moderate exercise or they will become dehydrated, suffer heat stroke and eventually die. We work in up to 45 degrees.

In reality your opinion, and my opinion, means very little in the face of the law. It should be adhered to by all Australians.

From the first moment I read your story, I was pretty sure it would end like that. Not because of cruel employers but because nobody wants employees who cause trouble.

...

Before you decide to fight for something think of consequences and first of all if you are actually right.
It ended like that because the system is corrupt and for no other reason. Of course I'm right, the law says employers must provide a safe workplace (WHS Act) and they must provide amenities (Workplace Amenties Code). Its not rocket science.
 
#30 · (Edited)
I put my job on the line by trying to stand up for my and my fellow workers rights and I lost my job for it.
From the first moment I read your story, I was pretty sure it would end like that. Not because of cruel employers but because nobody wants employees who cause trouble.

Not a while ago in my company a Muslim woman fell of stairs and allegedly decided to take the case with Workcover (I only know that from other's stories). From the first moment it was obvious she would lose (I am not even sure why she tried). First of all - company is not responsible for the fact that someone does not hold the railing and that someone wears high heel shoes to work when OH&S training sessions take place every 2 months and it is reminded quite often. She lost.

A few weeks after that employment reductions took place. Since her work performance wasn't very good, she got retrenched first... I can say that as a manager I would do the same - obviously making sure that everything is in accordance with Australian law and other regulations.

Before you decide to fight for something think of consequences and first of all if you are actually right.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Regardless of what is happened, there are far too many people who try to abuse the rights given to them. In my opinion, an absolute majority of these workcover claims and OHS "issues" are brought up because they are seen as a money making apparatus. Too many people are expecting employers to provide them with everything; from ensuring they are fed and hydrated to slipping and tripping where no normal person would…. People are simply forgetting that employers are the entity that provides them with a job and a purpose, and if we continue doing everything possible to make businesses unviable in this country we have no one by ourselves to blame. This includes a plethora of what is in my opinion absolutely useless, biased work laws which are unnecessary.

These laws were needed during industrial revolution when workers had nothing to protect them, while today everything starting from corrupt unions, to sometimes overburdening worker (read lazy, unproductive) protection laws are not needed. Usually if an employee is a productive, honest person they wouldn't find it hard to find a job elsewhere, and if their rights are not upheld there is an excellent court system to protect them.

To your knowledge Australia is ranked the 8th least corrupt country on this planet... obviously this contradicts with your claims
 
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