Politics of Immigration - Page 2

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Politics of Immigration - Page 2

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2010, 06:14 PM
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The politics in this topic is simple - selective immigration. As Australia we have every right to choose whom we want to let in and whom not. Since we are only a 20 million nation we need to be careful especially with countries that could send a large immigration down here which would destabilize economy. This is especially China, India but also Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Phillipines etc. Also, we also need to protect our country from potential threats such as terrorists or convicts. This is why country authorities are strict about English, occupation, genuine relationships etc. And whether you like it or not - this is the right way to go.

  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2010, 04:45 PM
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This is addressed to Amandy.
I honestly do not understand why somebody who is obviously very bitter toward the Australian way of life...would even contemplate living here....no matter what the reasons given for doing so in light of their resentment. That kind of attitude seems to be one of the core reasons why somebody should look elsewhere to live. We only have one shot at life... if you continually have bitter and angry perceptions of those around you...and you are in that situation by choice....would you not rather live elsewhere? It works both ways. As a PR of over 45 years and now an Oz citizen...I would not want a neighbour living next to me with that mind set. Call me what you like... I do not consider myself racist...whatever that is meant to mean anyway.. as racism crosses all races against all other races. Are we not all part of the human race?? Beside..the last time I looked..Islam is a religion NOT a race. Lose the anger and the chip on your shoulder..and blend in with Australians rather than being so dogmatically attached to the ways of your place of birth. If you were born here, as you claim to be Australian.. I really don't understand your point if you came to Australia by choice... unless like myself.... you came here with your family as a young child. Simply stated... you have the right to leave if you don't like it here.

  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2010, 07:50 PM
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I don't know your story, Dr Undies, nor Amandy's full story, but being forced apart from your spouse would be reason enough to make anyone bitter against the government and society responsible for that.

The fact still is, that some applicants get their visas approved much faster than others, even when their evidence is less compelling than some people from muslim backgrounds who have much stronger applications.

There needs to be an overhaul of the application process around the globe, and more effort to be compassionate towards applicants that are going through lengthy stressful waiting times.

Very interesting thread... thanks, Wanderer for putting it together :-)

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2010, 04:07 AM
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Hi Skydancer,
Good to see you still popping in and you may have noticed that this thread got put together because of some very pointed posting within another thread in the Visa section which is there for visa queries more so than what Amandy posted but I do not mind people having the opportunity to air their views as long as they are kept civil, and hence the extraction.

Yes, there are people not happy with visa processing and that can be processing of all types, there having been greater backlogs in the skilled visas area than what there has been for family visas and that is also a concern.
But how you could come up with
even when their evidence is less compelling than some people from muslim backgrounds who have much stronger applications.
Without having full explicit details side by side to compare is beyond me.

To say there needs to be a global overhaul is rather stretching things for whilst regulations are regularly reviewed, processing requires different things to happen and it may seem to some that there needs to be more compassion but when you are dealing with applications numbering 150,000+ a year and there are objectives to be maintained in achieving an appropriate supply of skilled people, the only place for compassion with family stream visas is to have regulations that reflect what is required to be eligible.

You mention people from muslim backgrounds and it is unfortunate for them on two accounts:
1. There are muslim extremists as there can be extremists from other religions or outside of religions and in the case of the muslim extremists that does then mean countries like Australia need to be aware and alert in ensuring proper checks are made for immigration.
2. The extra checking is not always going to be just for people from countries with muslim as a dominant religion but the general rule of thumb being countries that are on the ETA list are indicative of countries that have immigration/intelligence information sharing and/or governance seen to be of an appropriate standard.

I have often said on the forum how visa processing times can vary enormously and there are a number of reasons for that, the current asylum seeker situation is one and with possible development into even greater numbers the impact could be even substantially more.
A recent high court decision on appeals rights could yet have an enormous unknown impact for if the Labor government in having revoked Temporary Protection Visas flew the Please set sail banner for people smugglers, the High Court Decision has surely flown it even higher.
Basically, whilst Australia has always had a well managed refugee program supporting UNHCR efforts, refugees in centres, those ones near starvation [ not to mention those having died through starvation ] were given a chance at life.

What we have now are people with access to money by whatever means saying stuff the refugees and waiting our turn with the UNHCR, the system being adopted is people of some muslim countries can travel to oneanother visa free and so people smugglers in Indonesia have clients and a product, the product being the trip downunder and so do not expect the flow to stop too soon and who knows, it'd not surprise me to see boats from Africa coming across the Indian Ocean too just as boats have come direct from Sri Lanka.

Why?, you might ask and the answer is look at what is being provided for them on arrival and with Australia signed on to the UN convention and our soft own laws being made even softer, why would they not come?
There are people who will say but they have been in fear of their life etc. etc., all very difficult to disprove or measure the extent of stories spun.
In Afghanistan, the UNHCR that 5 Million Afghani refugees have returned there since 2002, 200, 000 lasy year alone and these probably from the 1M in Iran or 1.7M in Pakistan, there being about 185,000 refugees in India, last year it being reported that there were 80,000 Sri Lankans there.
So there's a lot of evidence to suggest people are making an opportunity trip, not a trip as refugees and Australia needs to compassionately remove them as quick as arrive back to their home country or a UNHCR centre.

And I say compassionately because I am compassionate about our Australian way of life where we do believe in a fair go if you play by the rules and all people will do in getting here by not playing by the rules is to gradually undermine not only our rules but how we can process others by the rules.
We already see the fee paying visa processing times being extended.
The other factors that will creep up on Australia and visa aspirants is
. Family stream visa numbers have already been reduced and seeing as people granted protection visas can then sponsor the rest of the family, though the family numbers may be counted under the humanitarian stream, as they balloon upwards it would not be surprising to see family stream numbers reviewed.
. Greater asylum seeker numbers will see even more resources needed to be allocated, possibly even a cause for some staff departures and effectively even longer processing times for other visa applicants.
Some people might say Oh!, lets be more compassionate, let even more in, don't worry about checks, appoint more staff etc. etc. and that is fine for those who not care too much for what sort of society we have and I had better explain for otherwise there'll likely be the racist flag raised, but you do need to think a bit more broadly than that for all developing/developed nations have a need for a good balance of skills and the ability to create all manner of things consistent with a standard of living we have.

That means keeping a good balance of people with the occupational and language skills and that is something most people seeking asylum will not have and even some family stream immigrants may not have.
The requirements for skilled people is pretty much on display in those visa sections and qualifications and skills do take time to develop and they need to be of a standard acceptable to Australia.
Thus running a system that would see a trend towards more of lesser skilled will in effect not just increase the burden on existing services but likely see the availability drop off in relative terms.

So I do greatly disagree with your ideal of overhauling the application process globally and if you give it some thought you may concur that you need a common standard that also accomodates for some other cultures.
And we should expect Immigration officers to consider applications against the regulations, nothing more, nothing less and yes times will always vary for many reasons.

  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2010, 06:54 AM
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Actually, I know quite a few muslims here and they are really cool people. They practice their religion and traditions as others do. They despise extremists of their religion. Obviously, we have some trouble makers of muslim background (they are usually referred to as Lebs or Wogs) but there is no large hostility or ridiculing of people from that sort of religion.

  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2010, 12:26 AM
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yes.i agree..strongly agree

  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2011, 06:46 AM
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The rules of Visas and Immigration are all-ways something over my head.

  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2011, 07:58 AM
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I think that the bureaucratic rules are above most people's heads...and are made to be as confusing as possible ... so much so that the Immigration Department workers don't even understand what they've written or why.

Originally Posted by vicshepardnrs View Post
The rules of Visas and Immigration are all-ways something over my head.

  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2011, 03:00 AM
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As far as my personal knowledge is concern, some legal discrimination turns expressly on place of residence. If such discrimination have sparkled much scholarly comment when they disfavor out-of-stayers. What you are actually facing now is territorial discrimination. However, in the end its still a matter of how you deal with the people around whether you are of the same preferences or not.

  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2011, 10:39 PM
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There is racism everywhere. Yes, it exists in Australia. It's not like it was when I was a kid, when we openly called people "wogs" and "chinks", thank goodness. But whilst it's more obvious when it comes from the rich, white nations, it exists in every part of the world. I live and work in Philippines, and I get treated differently because I'm Australian. I'm not allowed to buy land here, and if I ended up in a legal battle with a local I'd need to watch out. I knew a Chinese girl from Singapore a few years ago who fell in love with an American. Her sister told me their parents "Didn't want her to marry a caucasian". You don't hear that said out loud in Australia anymore!

However, when you scratch the surface you see that racism still exists beneath the veil of political-correctness. It certainly exists in immigration, and the fact is there are no votes to be gained by politicians making it easier for migrants to arrive. There's no question that it's harder for those from third-world countries to get into Australia, and the standards get higher and higher. Increasing IELTS test requirements is one of those areas. I'd suspect most white Aussies from the western suburbs would have trouble passing!

They're bringing in mandatory IELTS scores of 7.0 for new Registered Migration Agents. This will apply to existing agents too in a couple of years. Which means that an agent who had been working, say, 100% of his/her time with Chinese clients for the last 20 years could suddenly lose their registration because they can't achieve IELTS 7.0! How DOES a 57yr old Chinese, Indian, Hungarian, etc etc person suddenly gain IELTS of 7.0 with a minimum of 6.5 in reading, writing, speaking and listening? Their accent will somehow disappear?

What happens to those future Chinese clients who prefer to speak to a professional in their own language? Do they end up having to struggle through an interpreter and try to deal with an English-speaker? Or maybe they just give up and don't migrate at all? End result? Less applicants from non-English speaking countries. White Australia Policy by stealth!

Jeff Harvie MARN 0959797 http://www.downundervisa.com.au

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