Politics of Immigration - Page 3

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Politics of Immigration - Page 3

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2011, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by downundervisa View Post
There is racism everywhere. Yes, it exists in Australia. It's not like it was when I was a kid, when we openly called people "wogs" and "chinks", thank goodness. But whilst it's more obvious when it comes from the rich, white nations, it exists in every part of the world. I live and work in Philippines, and I get treated differently because I'm Australian. I'm not allowed to buy land here, and if I ended up in a legal battle with a local I'd need to watch out. I knew a Chinese girl from Singapore a few years ago who fell in love with an American. Her sister told me their parents "Didn't want her to marry a caucasian". You don't hear that said out loud in Australia anymore!

However, when you scratch the surface you see that racism still exists beneath the veil of political-correctness. It certainly exists in immigration, and the fact is there are no votes to be gained by politicians making it easier for migrants to arrive. There's no question that it's harder for those from third-world countries to get into Australia, and the standards get higher and higher. Increasing IELTS test requirements is one of those areas. I'd suspect most white Aussies from the western suburbs would have trouble passing!

They're bringing in mandatory IELTS scores of 7.0 for new Registered Migration Agents. This will apply to existing agents too in a couple of years. Which means that an agent who had been working, say, 100% of his/her time with Chinese clients for the last 20 years could suddenly lose their registration because they can't achieve IELTS 7.0! How DOES a 57yr old Chinese, Indian, Hungarian, etc etc person suddenly gain IELTS of 7.0 with a minimum of 6.5 in reading, writing, speaking and listening? Their accent will somehow disappear?

What happens to those future Chinese clients who prefer to speak to a professional in their own language? Do they end up having to struggle through an interpreter and try to deal with an English-speaker? Or maybe they just give up and don't migrate at all? End result? Less applicants from non-English speaking countries. White Australia Policy by stealth!
Very well put. Interpreters will surely be out of jobs in the next decade or so. So will translators. I am a professional writer and was somewhat struggling with the grammatical-type questions and tense questions they have in IELTS. I mean you should have a basic amount of English coming here to Australia, but I believe there is definitely some sort of white-Australia policy being secretly applied.

  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2012, 06:19 AM
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Although I do believe there is a certain amount of inequality (possibly even related to race) when it comes to immigration, I have to wonder how much of it truly is racism. I guess there is no way of ever truly knowing because just like every person from a race is an individual with unique ideas... every case officer and person working at immigration is also an individual with unique ideas and there is no way of telling who is or isn't racist based just on their jobs. Whether the rules are racist or not - that is the question I guess.

From what I can tell, the people having the hardest time getting in are those from countries that are considered Third World - whatever colour their skin is. For instance I know a woman here in Australia who came here from South Africa, which is an African country with a lot of safety and poverty issues, but she is white and yet I am guessing she did not have an easier time coming in than a black South African would. In fact she told me that when she and her husband just moved here, they felt very excluded by the locals in Australia and basically as soon as they changed their accents this became much less. So I am not sure how much of that is race and how much is simply "you are from a poor country and you came here for a better life". We do have to remember that although all countries have a "majority race", there is no longer a country in the world where there is just one race present. By making it hard for Indonesian citizens to immigrate, they are making it hard for more than one religion and race, and that is why I doubt it is purely racism based.

At the end of the day Australia, like Dexter said, has every right to deny whoever they want, and I respect that right even if I end up being denied myself for whatever reason. That is just the way of the world nowadays. I myself am from The Netherlands, where there is outrageous tension about immigration right now - I'm ashamed of my own country because one of its leading parties is very expressively anti-Muslim and I personally despise any shape or form of racism. I have seen racism in politics of immigration in my own country and it is ugly, far uglier than any situation in Australia is right now. I had Muslim friends back home and I stand by them and that you cannot judge a person's value on their race, religion or country of origin.

HOWEVER - from what I have read, immigration only has a certain amount of visas (for most visa types) they can hand out a year. I understand that they have to be very precise who they hand them to, and have to be thorough about who needs them why and if they could or couldn't do without it. I understand they have to be SOME form of selective, and that they are choosing to be selective towards countries where big influxes of immigrants have originated for reasons other than refuge or family/partners. I understand there has to be a selection process somewhere.

But what I have personally learned by moving here is that it is very unlikely anyone leaves their home and country without a very good reason. Some do, but most don't. The reason my South African friend and her husband and kids came here, is because South Africa has a CRAZY rape and violent crimes rate and she wanted her kids to grow up safely. I think that that's a pretty damn good reason to want to get into someone else's country. I personally am only here for my partner - I love Australia, don't get me wrong, but I also love The Netherlands and my family and friends there, and if for whatever reason my relationship ended (which I can't see happening really but hey, life is life) I would go straight back to where I came from. I would not ask to be here without a very, very good reason, because I had everything I loved and needed back home. I sacrificed my life and all my possessions (not to mention my cat, who was like a baby to me) to come here and I feel that is a heavy price and I don't see why anyone would pay that price without a very good reason. So I am not sure how fair it is to filter out immigrants who, on paper, 'need it less'. Whatever country they are from.

I have encountered a bit of racism here in Australia. My in-laws don't like immigrants very much - but have never thought to see me as one of them for some reason, I guess it's because I make their son happy and try so hard to adjust. Yes, racism has shown its face to me here, but to be brutally honest in my opinion it is nothing compared to what is happening in The Netherlands where people are literally suggesting refusing immigrants based on nationality and religion. That is far worse and then when I look around here, I realize it's not so bad.

Just my (page-long) opinion.

Last edited by Nelly87; 08-26-2012 at 06:22 AM.

  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2012, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by downundervisa
They're bringing in mandatory IELTS scores of 7.0 for new Registered Migration Agents. This will apply to existing agents too in a couple of years. Which means that an agent who had been working, say, 100% of his/her time with Chinese clients for the last 20 years could suddenly lose their registration because they can't achieve IELTS 7.0!
They put that in place because agents were giving wrong advice to mainly clients from their countries (be that India or china) and when later sued by clients used the language card. Claiming they didn't fully understand the law. Every view and opinion should be balanced, it is very easy to blame the government and the system. While I don't deny racism exist in EVERY country black, white, yellow or purple, it is shameful to play the racism card whenever system doesn't accommodate you!

Nelly, BRAVO!! Your posts are absolutely fantastic

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

We are told to remember the idea, not the man. Because a man can fail. He can be killed and forgotten. But four hundred years later an idea can still change the world.

Last edited by Boboa; 08-26-2012 at 09:44 AM.

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2012, 10:21 AM
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Racism in Australia does exist - there is no doubt about it. Except that only the one AGAINST muslims, Indians or Asians is usually brought up. Hostility towards Australians, white people etc. also exists (and comes FROM muslims, Indians or Asians or even happens between various European/white groups) but is not brought up.

Also, sometimes racism is required to protect the country (no matter how much we disapprove this fact). I don't mean bashing or throwing people away from the country but realisticly judge potential threats for the country and set up visa rules to protect the country. Think of how many Chinese or Indians could move in here. It is millions and as I pointed out, it could destabilize the economy. And let's face it - these countries are poor and their human resources are practically endless. This is why visa policy targets mainly those two countries.

If we assume that Chinese don't speak English or usually speak poor English - we are racists but we are not exactly wrong. Who doesn't believe it, should stroll through the streets of Campsie or Hurstville in Sydney or Footscray in Melbourne.

Also, history shows that current visa policy has certain reasons in the past events. For example - India used to be in group 2 in student visas many years ago. Many of them came to Australia, got PR and started opening dodgy schools and colleges to attract more Indians to apply for Australian student visa and make money on selling them education, providing services etc. Colleges did not really teach much, students did not attend lectures but still their attendace was fine etc. As a result, India was demoted to group 4 quite a few years ago (I only know these stories from migration agents, I was not here at that time). I am sure there are more occurrences like that in the past and visa policy towards India does not have much to do with racism. BTW Indians usually mix up well with local community.

Increasing IELTS requirements is nothing else but a strong hit against China and India. Getting 8 in each section of IELTS (in order to get 20 points) is impossible even for most native speakers. Getting 7 in each section is difficult but achievable. Still - most Chinese and Indians are unable to get there.

We can debate whether this is correct or not. From my experience I can say that politics of choosing who can be let in the country is correct but I would dispute if we are really getting these that we want to thanks to it.

  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
A few posters posted on a Visas & Immigration Time Line Thread re their experiences/views of what was happening and that greatly detracted from the intent of that thread.

In keeping with people being able to air happenings/thoughts I've started this thread [Out of the Visas & Immigration Section] so as such posts can be where they belong and as a service, [possibly temporary] I'll make it a sticky.

I'll put a redirecting comment post on the Time Line Thread too.
Hopefully my redirection skill is appropriate and not all threads will be redirected as some may have been deleted! but drift is there.
I think very less immigration to Australia compared to other developed countries. Is it true?

  #26 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:08 PM
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Click to play video
Another camera captures racist bus ride
Police have begun investigating as more footage emerges of the racist tirade which took place on a Melbourne bus on Remembrance Day.
Autoplay ONOFFVideo feedbackVideo settings
COMMENT: Why did no one help her?
JOHN SILVESTER: Racist, misogynist bus rage is staggering
The French woman targeted in a racist attack on a Melbourne bus earlier this month says she and her friends were terrified they would be physically assaulted by a group of fellow passengers.

My friends and I stopped laughing. We were quite afraid that he [would come] and hit us.*

It comes as police confirm they are investigating the tirade unleashed on Fanny Desaintjores aboard a bus travelling between Mordialloc and Caulfield, in which she was called a c---, a dog and threatened with having her breasts cut off after she sang a song in her native tongue.

Fanny Desaintjores, inset, with the man who abused her aboard the bus. Photo: YouTube
Ms Desaintjores told Fairfax Media she and about nine friends were on the bus, having spent the day at the beach for a barbecue and enjoying the weather.

On the bus, Ms Desaintjores said, "we sang French popular joyful songs, not coarse at all".

She said a man she believed to be drunk told her and her friends to shut up - "probably because he did not know the song and did not understand the words".

She said her group did not hear the man's threats at first, so he began to yell and become more aggressive.

"I was sitting in the middle of the bus at the back, so he could stare at me while screaming," Ms Desaintjores said.

"I thought he was kind of joking at first and then I realised he wasn't kidding at all, so my friends and I stopped laughing. We were quite afraid that he [would come] and hit us."

A couple, a woman and a man, pushing a pram, also joined in. The man shouted: "I'll f---ing boxcutter you right now, dog."

Ms Desaintjores said that when the couple got off the bus, the man smashed a window close to them and glass fragments hit her and a friend.

"At this point, I was really scared," she said.

"I realise that maybe we shouldn't sing in a public transport, but I think that's insane that they reacted like that, we're all adults. We could have a conversation and talk gently, instead of all these insults and threats."

The incident was reported to police on Wednesday after video footage of the incident went viral.

She was abused and called a c---, a dog, a bitch and, after singing in French, was told to "speak English or die motherf---er".

Police are looking for the two men and the woman. Anyone with information about the incident, or who was on the bus, is asked to phone CrimeStoppers on 1800 333 000.

  #27 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:11 PM
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it's shocking !

  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:01 AM
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Having lived in Australia for the past 2 years, I have never experienced racism.
I'm French and I feel EXTREMELY safe here compared to back in my own country/continent where I have had to deal with abuse on a daily basis. Not necessarily racist abuse, but abuse nonetheless.

I don't see racism as being a big problem in Australia for the simple reason that unlike in most European countries and in America, it's not "advertised" on TV all day every day. This is how things should be and I respect Australia a lot for that one reason only.
The more people see racism being talked about on TV, the more they start thinking about it, the more they themselves become "racist" because they start questioning if so and so from this and that country are "entitled" to be here.

The only time I have ever felt people thought there was something wrong with me was when I first moved her and I had a very strong Dublin accent, having lived in Ireland for 6 years. Once I cleared the fact I was not Irish but French, people's attitude towards me changed dramatically. After seeing the Irish lads and girls behaviour over here (and I'm talking about backpackers... not Irish people as a general rule), I can totally understand why a large portion of the Aussie population despises them. Does that make me a racist too then, if I'm starting to feel the same way about the Irish?

I can't blame people for willing to immigrate here. Australia is an amazing country, welcoming thousands of people every year. I think it's the Government's right to put quotas on the amount of people allowed in.

My English has never been subject to discussion, I have never been asked to pass a test, but I would have happily done it without thinking one second this was "hidden racism" from the Australian immigration services.
When you move to a given country, isn't it only fair for you to learn its language and traditions?

The whole racist issue is just something that keeps people talking. It gives them a comforting idea they're not the ones in the wrong. YOu can't really call what the Immigration department is trying to achieve "racism". I know I wouldn't. Yes I would have been very disappointed had they told me I wasn't allowed back here because my English wasn't good enough, but at the same time, like I said earlier, you know what you're in for. And having a via denied on the grounds of poor language abilities shouldn't become such a big deal.

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2013, 02:09 AM
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I don't know about France but you can't really make the statement that racism is constantly brought up everywhere in all of Europe. The Netherlands may have its immigration tension but that is not racism, not that it's much better but the main problems are religion related. There is a difference between racism and discrimination. Racism writes off (or raises up) an individual based solely on their race, their genetic heritage, their ethnic appearance. RACISM is not having prejudice about a nationality, it's judging people's value as a human being based on the colour of their skin or shape of their facial features that are considered part of a particular ethnicity.

Just to keep the line sharp because technically "racism in Australia" and "discrimination towards immigrants in Australia" are slightly overlapping but practically different things. It is the difference between "I do not like people from other countries coming into mine" and "you are worthless because of your skintone".

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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2013, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Dexter View Post
Also, we also need to protect our country from potential threats such as terrorists or convicts.

Sorry, I had to laugh.

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