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Old 12-22-2009, 02:17 AM
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Politics of Immigration

A few posters posted on a Visas & Immigration Time Line Thread re their experiences/views of what was happening and that greatly detracted from the intent of that thread.

In keeping with people being able to air happenings/thoughts I've started this thread [Out of the Visas & Immigration Section] so as such posts can be where they belong and as a service, [possibly temporary] I'll make it a sticky.

I'll put a redirecting comment post on the Time Line Thread too.
Hopefully my redirection skill is appropriate and not all threads will be redirected as some may have been deleted! but drift is there.





Last edited by Wanderer; 06-25-2010 at 11:17 AM.

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Old 12-22-2009, 03:10 AM
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Cannot redirect individual posts and so have done a cut and paste [twice] to get a sequence of posts:
And It's In three bites Starting With

By Amandy 15 November 2009
For those who don't remember me, this is my story (and my husbands).
We are still waiting, since 30th June 2009. I contact the embassy all the time, they say processing time is 6-9months. But why the hell is everyone on here getting it in less time??

There is nothing wrong with our application - apparently we are awaiting security checks. ? geez
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amandy 
My husband visa is taking ages, he is Bangladeshi and I am Australian. We are both in Bangladesh whilst this visa process takes it's time!

Date of application: 30th June 2009

Nationality: Bangladeshi

Visa type: Spouse Visa Provisional Subclass 309

Offshore/onshore: Offshore (Bangladesh)

Medicals submitted: Yes (2 weeks after application)

Police check submitted: Yes (With application)

Date CO assigned: Did not get informed formally. First email received (on 15th July 2009) from CO saying I had an interview on 12th August 2009)

Interview: 12th August 2009 - where the CO asked some really intrusive and horrible questions.

Date visa granted: Awaiting . . .

Why is it that people from USA, UK, Ireland, all the anglo countries seem to get their visas in less than 2 months.. but no, not my husband, why, something against black people. Why are people so racist.


………………………………..........
By ElKitten 17 November
Amandy-- i totally understand your frustration, it does suck a lot. I just wanted to say though, that USA, Canada, and a few european countries get their Visa's more quickley because they are low risk countries, which seems to be defined as the countries that have recciprical agreements with Australian government. Agreements such as these would allow for faster information sharing hence an easier/shorter application process. I don't think it is anything against black people.

Good luck to you and i really hope you hear something back soon!
………………………………............
By ElKitten 06 December
^Definitly!

It's the reciprocal agreement thing--many countries, including many countries populated by "white" people do not have a recciprical agreement with australia. These are the countries where you cannot get an ETA. It has to do with information sharing and other political stuff--not colour of skin. May I kindly mention that Brunei, Malaysia, and Singapore are on these lists, as is the U.S and Canada--all of which have many "black" citizens. I know many aussie PR's and even a citizen who is from Pakistan. A friend of mine from the Ukraine has been waiting god knows how long to get her PR...she is white but because she is from a HR country, it takes ages...

It's not about skin colour its about information--if there is no reciprocal agreement then it is hard for governments to know for sure who the applicant is and their history.

Besides, there is one HR couple on here that got their Visa quicker than any of the recent LR people.....yeah it sucks, but it just depends.
………………………………................................

By ElKitten 07 December
You know, I agree with you in some ways that yes muslim people do get the raw end of the deal sometimes because of the whole terrorism thing. And yes, it may very well impact international relations and hence impact what countries end up being "High Risk." It sucks in a major way but the people who are lucky enough to be "Low Risk" are just that--lucky. My being Canadian and Sazzle being british does make the process faster, but it hardly means that we can just give them anything and they will go "yep, come on in!!"

Yes australia does have the "convict" history but of course the policies will be different now. Australia is now a country that has to regulate its borders and from my experience, indeed it is the thoughest country to get into.

I just wanted to mention also that Brunei is a LR country, a country which is primarily muslim. Not all HR countries are muslim either and I don't think that there is anywhere in the application that asks you to nominate your religion (is there?). There are plenty of Catholics and other religions in muslim countries too...

I hope this isn't coming across as an attack, it isn't meant to be, I'm just trying to discuss the point. I do genuinly feel bad that HR people have to wait so long--how frustrating when you know that your partner/spouse is a good person that they have to be so scruitinized! I do hope you hear something very soon and that you'll be the next person celebrating on this board!
………………………………...

By Amandy 07 December
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkitten 
You know, I agree with you in some ways that yes muslim people do get the raw end of the deal sometimes because of the whole terrorism thing. And yes, it may very well impact international relations and hence impact what countries end up being "High Risk." It sucks in a major way but the people who are lucky enough to be "Low Risk" are just that--lucky. My being Canadian and Sazzle being british does make the process faster, but it hardly means that we can just give them anything and they will go "yep, come on in!!"

Yes australia does have the "convict" history but of course the policies will be different now. Australia is now a country that has to regulate its borders and from my experience, indeed it is the thoughest country to get into.

I just wanted to mention also that Brunei is a LR country, a country which is primarily muslim. Not all HR countries are muslim either and I don't think that there is anywhere in the application that asks you to nominate your religion (is there?). There are plenty of Catholics and other religions in muslim countries too...

I hope this isn't coming across as an attack, it isn't meant to be, I'm just trying to discuss the point. I do genuinly feel bad that HR people have to wait so long--how frustrating when you know that your partner/spouse is a good person that they have to be so scruitinized! I do hope you hear something very soon and that you'll be the next person celebrating on this board!

We had our interview about 20 days after our application - they loved our pictures we attached a whole album of about 100 pictures, they knew our relationship is genuine and they told us that. They didn't ask us any questions relating to our sex life or anything because they know we are genuine.
The thing they said is that he doesn't satisfy the character requirements. And all these security checks had to be done and are still in process. The issue was - o.k perhaps you don't have to nominate your religion, but you do know that Muslim people have unique names that are only for muslim people, and myself - i wear the islamic headscarf - i am not saying that this is the only reason and it's an attack on us, no. It's that because he and I are muslim, there has to be huge security checks, just in case he is a terrorist. I think it's alright, for people with any sort of history - but for my husband, the most innocent thing in this world - he is kinda getting a bit depressed about it, as in, how can they think bad things about him when he is a good person. He does charity work and is the president of a social welfare organisation, his father is a retired navy commando who fought for their country's rights and liberation. It's hard to fathom that people can think bad things about him. BUt of course, he has a muslim name, they need to check him. Even if it does take ages. . .
………………………………............................





Last edited by Wanderer; 12-22-2009 at 03:17 AM.

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Old 12-22-2009, 03:12 AM
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By Elkitten 07 December
That really sucks--you would think that other evidence of being of good character like you said, charity work and so forth, would speed up the process. I thought of what you said about the name too after I wrote my last comment--of course, its a bit obvious when it comes down names what religion you are in your case.

Please tell your husband not to loose hope. I know it is very upsetting and I can't imagine the anxiety that comes with all of this. If it helps at all, there was another girl here who wrote about her relationship and she got lucky with a character check thing as it was still valid from something else (i think?) and had taken nearly a year to obtain. The reason it takes so long could be innocent, stupid, but innocent--they are probably just waiting on paperwork from an agency that takes ages. I had a look the other day to see how long it would take to processs an application for my BF to be my defacto in canada..it would take a whole year if he applied offshore!

All of that to say yes it is so unfair, and yes it sucks really bad, but please try to keep your spirits up and not be angry. I really don't think it has anything to do with your husbands religion, i think its just bureaucracy and lenghty procedures between one government and another that could happen to anyone from a HR country. They need to check him like many, many other people who apply from HR countries..some just get lucky and have it happen more quickley it seems for whatever reason.

Why did they say he didnt meet the character requirements? Were there police checks missing?

I wish you and your husband all the best Amandy, do keep us informed of how you go--December/Jan is your 6 month mark right? Hopefully you get some good news then!
………………………………..
By Amandy 07 December
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkitten 
That really sucks--you would think that other evidence of being of good character like you said, charity work and so forth, would speed up the process. I thought of what you said about the name too after I wrote my last comment--of course, its a bit obvious when it comes down names what religion you are in your case.

Please tell your husband not to loose hope. I know it is very upsetting and I can't imagine the anxiety that comes with all of this. If it helps at all, there was another girl here who wrote about her relationship and she got lucky with a character check thing as it was still valid from something else (i think?) and had taken nearly a year to obtain. The reason it takes so long could be innocent, stupid, but innocent--they are probably just waiting on paperwork from an agency that takes ages. I had a look the other day to see how long it would take to processs an application for my BF to be my defacto in canada..it would take a whole year if he applied offshore!

All of that to say yes it is so unfair, and yes it sucks really bad, but please try to keep your spirits up and not be angry. I really don't think it has anything to do with your husbands religion, i think its just bureaucracy and lenghty procedures between one government and another that could happen to anyone from a HR country. They need to check him like many, many other people who apply from HR countries..some just get lucky and have it happen more quickley it seems for whatever reason.

Why did they say he didnt meet the character requirements? Were there police checks missing?

I wish you and your husband all the best Amandy, do keep us informed of how you go--December/Jan is your 6 month mark right? Hopefully you get some good news then!

December 30th is our 6 months. And our one year wedding anniversary is in January - and i don't know where to plan our anniversary.
There was nothing missing, police checks were there, that other character requirement paper. They said they are doing security checks with other agencies. Which takes time understandably. But a person from a Low Risk country can also be a terrorist, and it would take long to do the security checks for them too, but they don't do them! People are getting their visa in less than 2 months. So it definitely is a muslim thing.
Are there any muslims here that can prove me wrong ??? One girl on here has a muslim partner, and they have been waiting for 2 years!!!
We try not to take it personally, but it doesn't explain anything if we don't take it personally - Seriously, a person from a low risk country, why don't they need security checks, but the muslim men do? It's a fact and we all know it, just no one wants to say it.
Frankly, i absolutely love living in bangladesh, in a muslim country. I am australian-born and bred, but bangladesh is a better place with regard to racism and islamophobia. I get treated like a human being, whereas in my own country i get treated like shit because i wear the islamic headscarf.
Part of me is hoping he doesn't get the visa - life is good in Bangladesh for muslims. Life for muslims in Australia (no matter how australian you really are) is really tough and shit.
For all those muslims wanting to go to Australia - the land of opportunities. I advise you not to - you will be spat on, looked at funny, refused many jobs, be made invisible, get picked on by police, charged for no reason, if your a girl, ur headscarf will be ripped off - be careful.
If your not muslim - welcome - you will fit right in.
………………………………............................
By Elkitten 08 December
Low risk country people do get the security checks--it is just a lot faster because they have a more efficient system of information sharing. That is why only people from low risk countries can get an ETA--they put our names in the system and whammo all the information they need about us from our home government and other agencies is there. LR country people also have to get police certs and so on that can take ages-- I needed 5 of them and each took a month to get.

Again, I don't see how it could be a muslim thing as people from Brunei who are predomenantly muslim are considered low risk and hence would not need to extensive checks and could easily be approved in 2 months or less.

People who are not muslim from HR countries also have to go through the extensive security checks. There is even a low risk country person on here who has had to do a form 80 etc.

See I don't think i'm alone when I say that I wouldn't never treat a muslim person any differently that any other person. If you have been treated that way, i'm sorry to hear that and no wonder you are angry.

Some people are getting their visa in less than two months, some on the spot even... it took me 4 months because of character checks... I know that doesnt compare to how long you have been waiting but all I am saying is that it takes a differnent amount of time for each individual case.

I hope you hear someting soon!
………………………………..
By Ameristralian 08 December
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amandy 
You can't let anyone and everyone into a country?? They brought convicts and criminals to Australia and NOW they are scanning everyone who comes in.
And you are right, it is not about black or white, there are many people from different colours and cultures going to Australia - it's about something else. And no one here would understand the international politics of this issue, so i will not mention it.
Heck, it's about terrorism - and being a Muslim. We all know that, so do the immigration department. I've seen their 'Muslim Protocol' - if that's not racist then i don't know what is!

I am not a racist, but I agree with them thoroughly checking people. Not just muslims, but americans, canadians, whoever. Times have changed, and I am glad to be moving somewhere where they are seriously checking the people they let in. I hope the best for the both of you, but I think you shouldn't take it so personally.
[Edited]
………………………





Last edited by Wanderer; 12-22-2009 at 03:15 AM.

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Old 12-22-2009, 03:13 AM
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By haruko 08 December
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amandy 
For all those muslims wanting to go to Australia - the land of opportunities. I advise you not to - you will be spat on, looked at funny, refused many jobs, be made invisible, get picked on by police, charged for no reason, if your a girl, ur headscarf will be ripped off - be careful.
If your not muslim - welcome - you will fit right in.

I wish you all the best with your husband application, but im wondering... if you dont like australia, why do you want to live there? if you think life is shit there and they dont respect your religion, etc...
...
By Amandy 08 DecemberQuote:
Originally Posted by haruko 
I wish you all the best with your husband application, but im wondering... if you dont like australia, why do you want to live there? if you think life is shit there and they dont respect your religion, etc...

Because my family is there, my career that i love so much is there, my friends, the food i grew up with and love - 
.....
By haruko 08 December
well, those are evidently good reasons!
again, good luck with your application, im sure that if they wanted to deny it they wouldve done already rather than make you wait for so long!
.....................
By Sazzlewilson 12 December
At the end of the day, it's going to take as long as it takes, and all your complaining and insisting that it is because he is muslim won't make it any quicker! I understand very well the way that muslims are treated, I used to live in a muslim country. No, not every muslim is a terrorist, but you have to understand that extremists do exist, and Australia (despite it's origins of being where all the convicts were sent, in order to populate the place), like any other country, probably doesn't really want terrorists living here. Extremists exist in every religion, and you don't even need a religion to be an extremist! However Elkitten is correct, it's about sharing information between governments that makes it faster in some instances. If you want to immigrate somewhere you have to go through checks, that's just how it is, otherwise everywhere would be as over populated as the UK (who are now slowing down the number of people they allow in), and we'd all be living in tiny houses built on top of eachother....not quite the Australia I know. And besides, 6 months is the "standard" processing time, and that is only a suggestion. I have friends here who are applying for residency and did so at the same time as me, they are in a different state though, and it's taking a lot longer, they are asking for more evidence, and they have been together for more than 4 years. If you ask me, there is a certain degree of luck in it as well, which CO you get assigned, if it's a good day for them, what embassy you go to etc.
Anyway, Amandy, I hope you hear some good news soon!
...........................





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Old 12-29-2009, 07:14 AM
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Yeah I finally found it. And i have so much to say regarding this.
1. You all need to take your head out of the cloud and come to reality. High Risk countries - what are they, people who are likely to overstay their visa, i've done my research, people who overstayed their visa most were from USA, UK and China (Managing the Border: Immigration Compliance, CANBERRA). So don't give me this low high risk crap, it's all bullshit and DIAC are fooling you.

2. The entire world is against Muslim integration into Western Countries. Everyone in this forum (who does NOT have a MUSLIM partner/spouse) got their visa within accepted timeframes, very quickly indeed (on the spot, a few days, weeks, MAX 2 months). Someone said what about the high influx of people from Muslim countries into Australia - immigrating legally and quickly - these people are the minority of NON-MUSLIMS of that Muslim country.

3. The Director of Australian National Security HIMSELF wrote something about 'limiting' the amount of muslims who enter Australia.

4. Jewish Expert in Australia, Raphael Israeli wrote and is activity lobbying for the government to 'Limit Muslims Immigration'.

So ladies and gentlemen, whoever in previous posts said anything about 'Oh you don't have strong evidence that it's a genuine relationship' and 'You are from a High-risk country and people from those countries overstay their visas in Australia' and 'Maybe you didn't do you paperwork properly' ---- YOU are all lost and need to open your eyes and see what is happening to the greater society. You got your visas, congratulations to you. There was even a guy on here who had a good behaviour bond after DRIVING DRUNK (the active potential to kill innocent lives - putting all drivers and pedestrians at risk) still got his visa renewed. Why? You all know why, drink driving is Australia's value and way of life. That's why.
So before you judge and think that someone's love my not be genuine or think that the efforts are not as good as yours, think again. It's really the government of a islamophobic country that is ruining our chances at being somewhat happy.

References:
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/e...rence/jupp.pdf
http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publica...b-complete.pdf
Limit Muslim migration, Australia warned - National - smh.com.au
Illegitimis Nil Carborundum » Blog Archive Stop all Muslim Immigration to Australia?
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/parlment/nswbills.nsf/d2117e6bba4ab3ebca256e68000a0ae...2/3403f44d17a65b21ca256fb2000245c8/$FILE/ATT9RWKB/Religious%20tolerance.pdf (this MP was forced to resign 3 months after suggesting religious tolerance)
IT’S TIME TO STOP MUSLIM IMMIGRATION INTO THE UNITED STATES Bare Naked Islam's Weblog
Terrorism: Getting Worse or Not?
Muslim Terrorist Attack In Mumbai Demands Change to Australia's Immigration System


Last edited by Amandy; 12-29-2009 at 07:18 AM.

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Old 12-29-2009, 07:15 AM
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http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/parlment/nswbills.nsf/d2117e6bba4ab3ebca256e68000a0ae...2/3403f44d17a65b21ca256fb2000245c8/$FILE/ATT9RWKB/Religious%20tolerance.pdf

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Old 12-29-2009, 02:37 PM
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Not that I had contributed previously Amandy and so do not class myself as "all" and though I can understand your angst, I do not agree with your all your views.

Sure there are the HR/LR countries and it's not all about overstayers as elkitten pointed out with
Quote:
Low risk country people do get the security checks--it is just a lot faster because they have a more efficient system of information sharing. That is why only people from low risk countries can get an ETA--they put our names in the system and whammo all the information they need about us from our home government and other agencies is there. LR country people also have to get police certs and so on that can take ages-- I needed 5 of them and each took a month to get.
And sure, there're going to be those in many countries, Australia included who have attitudes far from what you can expect of an angel and that can even extend to attitudes of some Muslim men to non muslim women and the way they dress etc.

But that has not stopped many muslim peoples immigrating to Australia.

With the links you have given you may want to question yourself, the reliability you would place on a report by One Nation [and yes we even get nutters in politics] and even some media articles for you'll always have editors/reporters wanting to write something sensationalist in the hope that it sells more newspapers and keeps their advertisers happy.

Have a read of the character test and you'll see that one would fail if they had a conviction serious enough to carry a jail sentence of 12 months or more, that not likely for drink driving in most countries.
You seem to do your own judging very well Amandy with
Quote:
Why? You all know why, drink driving is Australia's value and way of life. That's why.
I do not judge and actually admire Anthony Mundine for his comments on terrorism of a very horrendous act and though there are indeed many forms of terrorism, it is not surprising to find that there'll be many who do not think too kindly of muslims because of the association, even though it may be a small %, a bit like drink drivers.
In truth, it is likely that many non muslims, non jews, and many people not involved with religions rarely get involved with religious people in general and how they live their lives.

At the same time, when you have Islamic Clerics making statements that are not taken too well, again it is not surprising that there'll be some people offended and in fact some in the community could be angered.

As to what is done re acceptance in the community, I recall a couple decades ago that a council in Melbourne declared a Women only bathing time for their public baths - Why? - merely because of lobbying by the muslim members of the community despite such public facilities having been funded by all rate payers.
So, yes there are some who may question how well different cultures may exist, not to mention the possibility of Sharia Law support as is occurring in the UK.

And sure, other religions have their Church Laws and some religious groups may even strive to keep misdeeds inhouse but at the end of the day, the Justice system of a country should stand.
Muslims I understand [and correct me if I'm wrong] have a belief of a body of a deceased being laid to rest within certain timeframes and if that is not in accord with a countries Laws, there exists possibility for conflict, and so yes, there are all manner of things that need to be addressed.

Meanwhile, with the processing, you may find that there will be far less in the way of Embassy/Consulate/DIAC staffing in some countries, perhaps even reliance on locals employed and so those aspects can also add to times taken.





Last edited by Wanderer; 06-25-2010 at 11:22 AM.

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Old 06-25-2010, 09:51 AM
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Good

It is good post


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Old 11-05-2010, 10:44 PM
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Opinions vary....

Having read the post claiming drink driving is accepted in Australia I could not help but post this....I do not see the relevance to that subject in this post. I understand the frustration involved in gaining a visa but such statements seem to highlight an issue regarding character.
I also find mention of Australia and convicts also irrelevant, although it is true that Australia was a penal colony it has since been populated by people from all walks of life and backgrounds. I am proud of the fact I am Australian and agree that we can afford to be stringent regarding our policies and entrance requirements.
The fact we are so selective contributes to the fact our country is such a popular destination for so many people.
It is unfortunate that in some cases good people get caught in the screening process and in some cases are refused a visa but that is much better than allowing people of bad character entry into this country.
I have been in a situation in the past where a prospective partner was rejected based on character and have also been involved in a successful spouse visa application. So I understand the frustration but this does not justify previous statements about Australia. If one searches hard enough they can find references both for and against the same subject so to simply post links supporting ones views is not sufficient.


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Old 11-09-2010, 01:38 AM
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Discrimination? Countries around the world fight and eliminate all the possible threats to their environment and humanity. We have to understand and submit to whatever the processes of entering another territory. This is just a way of preserving their culture, land, resources and the people behind them. Like Australia who ranked third in its economic diversity and the lowest poverty rate around the world, entering this country maybe difficult..


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