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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Today I consulted an agent who was not helpful :(

I am about to complete my bachelors degree, and wish to apply for a 485 Post Study Visa.

In practise, I finish 09/02/2018 as that is the date of my last class, with no further assessments or assignments due.
according to my Confirmation of Enrolment letter, the course end-date is 24/02/2018,
however, my Student Visa expires 28/02/2018,
and course results are released 10/03/2018.

Is the 'course end-date' the same as the 'completion date?'
As you can see, it looks like my visa expires before I will get my results

My college has provided an "Expected Completion Letter" which reads:
Name: xxx
Date of Birth: 20-May-1987
Student Number: xxx
Program: Bachelor of Business (Marketing)
Start Date: 20 March 2017
End Date: 24 February 2018

RE: Expected Program Completion Letter
To whom it may concern,
This is to confirm that the above named individual is enrolled in the Bachelor of Business (Marketing)
at Kaplan Business School Sydney Campus.
John Smith commenced this program on 20 March 2017 and pending successful
completion of all subjects, he can be expected to complete the degree on 24 February 2018.
Will the Department of Immigration accept this letter as proof of my completion date as 24th February 2018??
My agent does not think so, but there is much contradictory information on this forum.

Thank you in advance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Jeremy,

Having managed to find the PAM regulations as well as some Tribunal Judgements, I found nothing that explicitly tanks a provisional letter (I'm keen to hear if you know different?) Instead, the main issue is that the final completion date is before the application date, i.e. the Final Completion Letter must state the completion date as being before 28 February 2018. I'm awaiting clarity from the college as to whether that date would be on the Final Completion Letter, and if so, would the Provisional one be OK to lodge with?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
From your own post, Jeremy:
Jeremy Hooper said:
You do not need to load the letter immediately. It can be loaded later. However, you must have officially completed your course. You will need to call your Education Provider and ask them what the official completion date is for your course. Note, it is NOT the date of your last exam. If the official completion date is after your visa expires you will have apply for a new visa so that your can stay until after the completion date for your course.
From this forum:
wrussell said:
To apply you do not need your completion letter, but you must know the date that will be on it.
From this forum:
wrussell said:
Notwithstanding the DIBP policy commentary on the issue, the legislation does not require applicants to have 'recieved results'.
[...]
You must have completed the academic requirements before you lodge the visa application. The evidence of this can follow.
From another website:
Qualification related documents do not need to provided at the time of application, but it must be stressed that you must be sure to apply for the 485 visa only after the official completion date as provided by education institute. Should you apply for your 485 visa and later provide a completion letter from the education institute that quotes that your completion date occurred after you lodged your application, your application may be refused.
===================================

HOWEVER..., here wrussell writes something quite confusing and unclear:
https://www.australiaforum.com/posts/1002026/
wrussell said:
The completion date is when the applicant met the academic requirements for the qualification, not when the qualification was conferred, or the date course provider indicated as the completion date; by whatever means.
And this from case-law:
There are two necessary elements to achievement of academic results. One part is the student submitting all relevant items for assessment to the education provider. The second part is the education provider assessing these items and determining for itself whether the student has in fact achieved the academic result and awarding a result. The second part is essential. A student has no legal right to the award of a qualification unless a university decides for itself that the requisite requirements have been satisfied
[...]
In the timeline between a student completing the final piece of assessment of a course of study and the education institution conferring the relevant award, there comes a point when the education institution satisfies itself that the requirements have been met. That point is reached where the result of assessment for the final course or item of assessment which the student is required to complete as part of the course of study has been made publicly available, assuming that the result of the final piece of assessment meets the institution's requirements for progression through the course. The publication of such result is in effect a statement from the institution that the student has completed all of the necessary components for the degree to be awarded.
[...]
Given that a decision as to whether a student has satisfied the requirements of a course is entirely a matter for the education institution, the point at which the student actually learns of the result, or the date when the education institution informs the student via letter, email or otherwise of the student's results is not relevant for determining the date when a student has completed the academic requirements. The relevant date is the date when the education institution decides that the academic requirements have been met, namely, the date on which the results are finalised by the education institution. After this date a student would be able to contact the education institution to find out whether they had satisfied the necessary requirements. Although the question of academic appeals would affect the point at which results are finalised, the issue does not arise in this case.
and this other case law:
The Tribunal found (CB 208) that the Applicant completed the academic requirements for the award of graduate diploma when his last result was entered into the student record on 2 August 2005.
[...]
In my view, the proper meaning to be ascribed to the item is that you complete the academic requirements for a course when you achieve the necessary results or credits to enable you to be awarded the relevant degree or diploma.
From a tribunal ruling:
The term 'completed' in r.1.15F(2) of the Regulations was considered in Venkatesan v MIAC & Anor[1] where the Court held that an applicant completes the academic requirements for a course when they achieve the necessary results or credits to enable the applicant to be awarded the degree or diploma. The Court found in that case that the applicant had completed the course once he had completed and passed the relevant proportions of the course and there was nothing more for the applicant to do of an academic nature. Burchardt FM acknowledged that certain steps were required, but they were purely administrative steps that did not require any form of academic effort by the applicant or any evaluation of any such effort by the university.[2] The term 'completed' was also considered in Sapkota v MIAC where Cowdroy J held the relevant date for determining when a student has completed the academic requirements is the date when the educational institution decides that the academic requirements have been met, namely, the date on which the results are finalised by the institution.[3] The date when the institution informs the student of the result is not the relevant date, nor is the date of conferral of the award.
 

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Question.

Hi rfwoolf,

I am in a similar situation that you were in. Would you let me know what was the outcome? Am in need of some advice.

Thanks!
Dileep
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi rfwoolf,

I am in a similar situation that you were in. Would you let me know what was the outcome? Am in need of some advice.

Thanks!
Dileep
Hi Dileep

Our strategy worked;
the important parts are:
1 You cannot apply until AFTER your course is completed,
2 The completion letter can come later, but must state that the date of the completion was BEFORE you applied.

You will need to talk to your college to confirm 100% what the completion letter will say; different institutions may have different dates of completion.
Your case may also be a bit different, for example if doing a thesis etc.
I also don't want to take any responsibility, my advice is not guaranteed and I am not an agent
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
thank you for the quick response. I will have to talk to college then.

thanks again!
Here is a little bit more general info:

The government generally believes it's up to the institution to decide when you completed your course. However, if it does go to appeal, then the tribunal really looks into it and will decide for themselves when you completed the course.

For example, the government will generally believe the date of completion is when your results are released, with some exception
but in our case the college gave a release date that was *before* the results were released.

Therefore, if our case ever went to appeal for any reason, we would have lost.

For this reason you have to be careful.
On the first point, if you apply *before* your completion date, there is practically no chance of success; the government will usually take an unfavourable, worst-case view of your completion date.

On the second point, if your college consistently states in your application (e.g. in your completion letter) that this date was *before* you applied, then you should be OK.

There are some scenarios where this is not always straight-forward, for example if you submit work that can take a long time to be assessed, and may be rejected, such as a thesis, then the college may not be able to say you have "completed" until this work is finalised.

I hope this helps.
 

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Hi,
Thanks again for the detailed reply. I am in a similar state that you were in but with a different twist. I am unable to post it publicly but if there is a way to message privately I can explain. In short, I did my bachelors and had to sit for a special exam which fell closer to the date of my visa expiry. That might give you an idea of my situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@dprashank1
I've sent you a message, maybe you'll be able to reply?

Yeah I think it depends. Maybe?
You will probably need to talk to a few people at your college, maybe your dean also, to try and get a straight answer on what date your completion letter will have on it.
Usually your completion date will be as per your letter of acceptance / enrolment letter with the college.
Part of the reason why agents and everyone is confused is because if you read all my information above, the law is a bit contradictory, as I explained:
1) It is usually up to the institution to decide on when your completion date was, but
2) if the government ever reviews it, they will probably say it's a different date, such as when your results were released, which would usually be unfavourable, or they may find it was when you had done everything of an academic nature (such as writing your last exam), which would probably be more favourable.
 

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Hi! Just read your posts in the forum and I was wondering if you could advise me with my situation. I have completed my studies and received provisional completion letter and transcript. Both documents state that I’ve completed all units of study for the award. However, it also states that I am “pending approval by the examinaton committee and awaiting ratification by academic board.” My question is, will this be accepted by immigration? It has a “course completion date” but it does not have a “course requirement met date.”

I have to file my visa before june 18. The completion date stated in the letter is may 19.
 
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