Australia Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2/4/18..
Hi everyone.. I'm Gavin. From Brisbane Happy Easter!
Just reading through people's applications for partner visa 820/801..
Myself and my partner was introduced through my house mate back in October 2016.
After a visit over to the philippines in April 2017 we had a strong connection wanted to start our relationship. I returned after a few weeks there on holiday. We talked Every day without fail on FB messenger. You just know when you have that connection and it's right!!
She has an Aunty here who is Filipino and has been in Australia as a citizen since the 80,s.
We applied for her first holiday visa last year as her Aunt as the main sponsor but I was registered on her application as her coming to see her partner as well. She was granted her holiday visa and had 3 weeks over christmas and New Year's 2017/2018. Obviously we have photos on our phones and on FB.
I am due to go back over in a few weeks for 2 weeks holiday to see her.

All in all we will only have 5 full weeks physically together in over around 18 months of starting our initial contact ..

I'm pretty sure this amount of time together is Surely not enough to satisfy for a partner visa?

I have been sending over money for birthday and and for her to save for our holiday when I get there , booking flights and hotels etc.
She has her own money and doesn't ask for anything. She has a good job accounting for a firm and has done uni there and has a diploma but didn't sit her final exam for accountant qualification.

I researched to 3 best agents in Australia and BOSE MIGRATION came up so I had a consultation with them about our situation.
From what they said we have a good case for this visa . We have no kids involved and both have current decent jobs although She is still living in Cavite and has held her job more than 7 years.
This is NOT an agent who promised a no visa no fee , so I am reluctant to go ahead and splashing out nearly $3k without having a more clear cut answers of requirements of how long we should have physically spent together to satisfy for this visa..

My confusion is how can we proove de facto or long term relationship, show joint bank accounts and all the other evidence needed when the government will only grant short term holiday visas for people.
.. I have read about there being a 3, 6 or 12 months tourist visa but the agent said applying for a 12 month visa is too risky and not likely to get granted.. is this really true or are we just being pushed toward the more expensive 820 visa here?

Providing evidence of 2 years in a De facto relation ship would take forever knowing that we can only get 2-3weeks away from our jobs to visit each other and we seem to have been scared off by the agent to apply for a 12 month visa.
Of course she would leave her job if she came for a 12 month tourist visa.

Honestly we are willing to go through the process but we want to maximise our time together or be permanently together if we can.

I am just wondering the best way we can go about this before making an expensive partner visa ($7k) and agents fees($3k) to be denied because we just haven't had enough physical time together ..
We are just getting bits of Info here and there from agents as they seem to be scared of telling us the whole story, in case you take all the info and go alone in the application without their help then there would be no need for agents. That's pretty much what the agent said..
For us though we would go with an agent anyway regardless of us knowing the processes etc. Just because if we overlooked a minor detail and get refused. I would rather let the agent get the finer details sorted although I understand there is no guarantee we would be granted anyway of course.

I would be interested in people's opinions based on their experiences and do's and Don'ts, what you would have done differently but more importantly I would love to hear if people have picked up vital info from agents when you was applying that may help myself and others in knowing which way to go with a 820/801 visa?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,960 Posts
Without looking at your entire case no one can fully advise you, on here the majority of us are laymen and shouldn't be looking at your case to fully advise you anyway. That's the realm of a MARA registered migration agent.

You need to be in a defacto relationship for 12 months as partners not dating. You mustn't intend to live permanently apart.

From the above it sounds like you have a good case, you just need to make sure you have good quality evidence in the 4 sections. If you are worried about the consult you've hard accuracy, you could try one of the agents that regularly assist in here, as far as I'm aware they all offer assessment based services and full application based services - what I can tell you for sure is they will all tell you straight as it is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,960 Posts
Oh and a no visa no fee service would be a ludicrous offer. Agents need to earn a living and nobody can guarantee a visa will go thru, if they spend time preparing and assisting they expect to get paid.

If they put through rubbish applications that fail word of mouth and the internet very quickly catch up with them so I wouldn't base any scope on the fact they don't offer shoddy "have you injured yourself no win no fee" deals.


Oh and in answer to your final question, I used a Migration Agent due to having a difficult application, they saved me from fatal errors, I am now on a successful visa.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,612 Posts
I have done lots of visas for people in the same circumstances as you describe. There are really only 2 pathways:

-Prospective Marriage Visa with visits on a tourist visa during processing.

-Establish de-facto relationship/ cohabitation period during a number of visits on a tourist visa to Australia and sponsor travelling or living overseas with the partner, apply for a partner visa onshore or offshore, depending on the circumstances..

Three month multiple tourist visas are the standard, but sometimes a longer period is granted. Sometimes it comes with a "no further stay" condition, often it does not. You can't predict it.

If living together in Australia permanently is the end-game, an expensive partner visa is the only option. They all cost the same. No one is steering you towards it.

All the information you need is freely available if you know where to look. Understanding and using it correctly is another story.

As far as I am concerned, no one in their right head would offer a no win/ no fee service. I think the only time that makes sense is in litigation cases, where the lawyer stands to reap massive rewards if he wins the case. Medical specialists or dentist don't offer no win/ no fee services. I can't see why anyone else should.

In simple terms, you should have been together in some sort of joint household for at least 12 months if in a de-facto relationship or 6 months if married or in a registered relationship.

What that means exactly is different for everybody. The job of the agent is to consider your specific circumstances and advise you accordingly. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LadyRogueRayne

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Th a la for the replies this far. Ok so basically it seems we have to proove the De facto relationship before we even think of going for a partner visa right? That being 12 months to proove cohabitation!
That's interesting that the agent in question said we have a good case being that we have have only had physically 5-6 weeks together .🤔
That said we have been together since October 2016.

1. So to proove De facto relationship we have to have had 12 months living together?
To do this I guess our only option is to go for more long term tourist visa for her to spend more time here together until we have had physically 12 months together?

2 . I was advised that we could apply for the 801/820 visa then register our relationship onshore .
3. Is it possible to register a relatoinship when she is here on a tourist visa?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,612 Posts
Not sure if you read my comment properly, as I basically answered your questions already.

I won’t second guess what another agent may have told you, as I don’t know the details you have provided them and what their exact responses were.

Each state has its own rules re. registering relationships. You can easily find out online what is required.

Don’t rush into anything. Consider all the options and work out a viable strategy or get a professional to do it for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
We didn't go through any agent during our Partner Visa process. I agree with CCMS that you shouldn't rush with this because you two should takes time to get to know each other and develop your relationship naturally.

We had 15 months living abroad together and years of being in a long distance relationship. We understand that not every couple can endure long distance obstacles but it does really strengthen our bond.

My advice for the partner visa process is be genuine and honest, list out every details of your relationship to prove you two really have a strong connection, ask for support from friends and family. No luck or agent needed.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,135 Posts
You have already had some excellent advise from Nick, if your aim is to marry and for her to settle permanently in Australia then I would suggest the Prospective Marriage Visa path, you already meet the main requirements, and from what you have stated you may find it difficult to prove a defacto relationship.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the replies. Very good info.
I am thinking my main concern if going for the partner visa instead of the marriage visa is having a full 12 months proof of cohabitation when for myself having long periods of stay in the Philippines or my partner having long stays in Australia is not possible if we want to keep our jobs.
So my point is knowing if the case officer will understand that this is why we cannot have so much time together or they just purely want to see a FULL cohabitation of 12 months.
This info is crucial for us to know but obviously this is not pointed out on the immi web site.

Will seek this info from an agent soon and will reply back here ..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,023 Posts
Not sure if you picked it up but Nick (CCMS) is a Registered Migration Agent.

This is what he said:-


"In simple terms, you should have been together in some sort of joint household for at least 12 months if in a de-facto relationship"

Then you say this:-

"So to proove De facto relationship we have to have had 12 months living together?"

The answer to your question is no, but Nicks statement is correct.

With what you have posted I think a successful 309 or 820 application is doubtful currently. The PMV would be a much safer bet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
In simple terms, you should have been together in some sort of joint household for at least 12 months if in a de-facto relationship or 6 months if married or in a registered relationship.
After speaking to 2 migration consultants, one said if you do NOT have a no further stay condition when registering your relationship you can apply straight away for the 801/820,
where as THE OTHER agent said it's best to wait at least 2 months before applying.. you state you need at least 6 months cohabitation when in a registered relationship,
But other agents are saying that is not true!

Where can I find the correct information for applying for a 820/801 when in a registered relationship?
There is nothing I can find about this in relation to cohabitation whilst in a registered relationship...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,023 Posts
There is nothing written on what you want to hear about cohabitation and registered relationships.

The 3 agents have given you what they think is ok or best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Magic. So conflicting answers from agents to what they, " THINK is best " Does not help anyone. IMO they should know the immigration law, thats a their job and what they get payed for.
WHEN your paying an agent you are paying for facts and safe knowledge that what they say are correct, especially spending life savings for a partner visa and agents fees.

I understand no agent can garrentee a VISA as it's the department's decision of course but it's hardly comforting that you get conflicting responses on what could determine if you loose ALL your life savings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,023 Posts
It will all depend on how you can and want to interpret the Migration Regulations and ancillary migration documentation.

You use your best case to support the way you want the regulation supported with the evidence you have.

As in court cases many times a decision is made yet on appeal it is overturned - mostly by presenting the same evidence in a different light and using different references.

There is no Black and White only different shades of Grey!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,978 Posts
Leaving aside litigation that is settled by mediation, someone wins and someones loses, so on average half of all cases are lost. No win, No fee does not protect a losing party from having costs awarded to the winning party. See what you get when you ask for No win, No costs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,124 Posts
Magic. So conflicting answers from agents to what they, " THINK is best " Does not help anyone. IMO they should know the immigration law, thats a their job and what they get payed for.
WHEN your paying an agent you are paying for facts and safe knowledge that what they say are correct, especially spending life savings for a partner visa and agents fees.

I understand no agent can garrentee a VISA as it's the department's decision of course but it's hardly comforting that you get conflicting responses on what could determine if you loose ALL your life savings.
Here's the thing, if you have a registered relationship or you are married, then you don't have to meet the "12 months living together" rule. However, you DO have to show solid evidences of your relationship: joint bank accounts, joint bills, joint lease (or proof of cohabitiation)...there are a lot of fraudulent people trying to use this route to gain Australia PR, which puts the onus on us legitimate couples to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that our relationships are real. No one can guarantee that you will get a partner visa given the information you've provided us. You've had some very good RMAs give you advice. Nick helped me through my rough 820 visa application and I can tell you, without that guidance, I probably wouldn't have had a successful outcome.

From what you've described, your BEST bet is to apply for a PMV 300 visa. It sounds like you have good evidence for that visa. But, if you don't want to get married, then you will have to take your chances on a 309/820 visa. First thing you will have to do is register your relationship BEFORE you apply for the visa. Next, either apply offshore (309) or have your partner (don't refer to as girlfriend, that constitutes only dating in DIBP's eyes) get a different visa to come to Australia without the no further stay clause and then apply onshore for the 820 visa. The problem with that is that you don't have tons of evidence. So, living together for at least 6 months AND having the relationship registered should give you ample evidence to prove a genuine relationship. THAT is what Nick was telling you. Next, you have to hope that you get a CO that sees all your evidences as a true, genuine relationship. They will look harder at an application that doesn't have 12 months living together. That is what these agents are trying to tell you. They're trying to help you avoid giving a $7k+ donation to Australia.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,215 Posts
Magic. So conflicting answers from agents to what they, " THINK is best " Does not help anyone. IMO they should know the immigration law, thats a their job and what they get payed for.
WHEN your paying an agent you are paying for facts and safe knowledge that what they say are correct, especially spending life savings for a partner visa and agents fees.

I understand no agent can garrentee a VISA as it's the department's decision of course but it's hardly comforting that you get conflicting responses on what could determine if you loose ALL your life savings.
Law and evidence are 2 completely different things. Law says you can register a relationship to waive the 12 months however you still need the evidence and not all migration agents view evidence the same.

If my memory serves me correctly there was a case officer from immigration that posted on this forum some months ago that said that registering a relationship right before you apply raises red flags with them.

Think of this way ... you need to convince someone who does not know you that you are in a genuine relationship. How do you do this? Providing them with evidence is how that is done. If you do not provide much evidence then you cannot convince them.

At the end of the day a registered relationship certificate and marriage certificates as just pieces of paper at the end of the day. You need to show the case officer you can genuine and each piece of evidence builds them a picture of your life together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
Law and evidence are 2 completely different things. Law says you can register a relationship to waive the 12 months however you still need the evidence and not all migration agents view evidence the same.

If my memory serves me correctly there was a case officer from immigration that posted on this forum some months ago that said that registering a relationship right before you apply raises red flags with them.

Think of this way ... you need to convince someone who does not know you that you are in a genuine relationship. How do you do this? Providing them with evidence is how that is done. If you do not provide much evidence then you cannot convince them.

At the end of the day a registered relationship certificate and marriage certificates as just pieces of paper at the end of the day. You need to show the case officer you can genuine and each piece of evidence builds them a picture of your life together.
Just to add to this, this MARA agency quotes a visa refusal (Nov 2017 post) stating:

"In a recent case from the Department of Immigration, the decision-maker said (and I quote): "I give little weight to a registration of relationship certificate given how easy it is to obtain". In this case, one party was not in the country when the relationship was registered. However, they registered their relationship nonetheless."

Source: https://www.freedommigration.com/wh...married-have-on-our-partner-visa-application/

There is plenty of autonomy for the delegate to determine the genuine/continuing element of a relationship even if you meet the "de facto" relationship threshold according to the migration regulation.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,612 Posts
Magic. So conflicting answers from agents to what they, " THINK is best " Does not help anyone. IMO they should know the immigration law, thats a their job and what they get payed for.
WHEN your paying an agent you are paying for facts and safe knowledge that what they say are correct, especially spending life savings for a partner visa and agents fees.

.
I will be happy to quote you the relevant laws, but that won't clarify anything for you. All the law says is that the 12 month de-facto period does not apply where the relationship is registered. I use the 6 month co-habitation period as a practical guide, based on my professional experience, but I look at it on a case by case basis.

What will work for one couple, may not work for someone else. it really depends on your total relationship history and the evidence you have to support it. None of that is set in stone.

You can apply for a sc. 820/801 whenever you want, but obviously there is no point in lodging the application, if you do not have the relevant supporting evidence.

Registering the relationship (or a marriage certificate) in itself means little, if you can't meet the overall relationship requirements and provide solid relationship evidence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LadyRogueRayne
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top