[2manyjones]

Hi
My boyfriend is Italian and we have been living together in Italy for the past two years. We are ready to move and settle in Australia and it seems that the defacto partner visa is the most appropriate, as he is 36 yr old and not eligible for a work visa (I think). However, I am really worried as we lack a lot of evidence.

We have been living together for 2 years, but we have never had a lease as this is a common way for landlords to avoid taxes in Rome. We have no bills in our names, we pay cash directly to the landlord. In addition both of us have never had mail sent to the home address, as it is easier, safer and less hassle to pick up at our work places or his mothers house. We dont have joint bank accounts or anything like that. We share day to day expenses, but there are no major purchases, as I want to settle in Australia not here. Do you think this will severely penalise us? There are not many people that could produce a lease or bills as evidence in Rome. I guess Italy is different to other countries and I wonder how understanding a CO is able to be of differing cultural contexts.

We do have emails that suggest we live together, for example discussions about a new apartment, when we will be home from work and what we will have for dinner.

We have alot of emails from the beginning of our relationship when i was in London to now. Also we have a been on a lot of holidays together including to Australia to meet my family and with my parents to Tuscany. Is this sort of evidence good enough to get you through?

I am also wondering if your income is a concern for getting accepted, as in Italy, I am not able to do what I am qualified to do and I am paid less then half of what I earn in Australia. Also my partner is penalised because he does not have the right connections (this is Italy) and so even if he is skilled, his job does not match his qualifications.

Last question... in relation to demonstrating your intention that your relationship will be long term... any ideas on evidence??

grazie a mille

 

[tigris330]

It really sounds tricky.

Any none legal stuff like emails to each other and statements by friends and family is usually just considered extra, as it can be faked. All the documents which are mentioned on the immi website, you don't seem to have.
What I can suggest is this:

1) you mentioned holidays. Can you retrieve your e-tickets with both your names on them? I managed to do this for some trips by contacting the airline.

This, however, does not prove that you've been living together for 2 years. The problem is that de-facto relationships in the way immi uses the term means living together, and not simply being together. So yes, if you can't prove this in any way with documents such as bills, leases or letters sent to the same address, then I see no way in which your CO can confirm that you are indeed in a de-facto relationship.

I am of course, not a migration agent, but that's what I learnt through my own research while applying for a visa.


Finally, I believe that you qualify for a work visa until you're 45 years old (such as subclass 175 or 176), but not for a working holiday visa, where you need to be under 30.

 

[2manyjones]

thanks for replying so quickly. We are going to ask both our previous landlord and current landlord for letters stating that we have lived in their houses and paid rent, but i can see your point as it is still a secondary source, not primary document.

I wonder if anyone else has had a similar problem when coming from Italy. Maybe we should just get married, would that shift the emphasis from proving that we have lived together? I am ready to come home, but I wont go unless he can come.

 

[tigris330]

thanks for replying so quickly. We are going to ask both our previous landlord and current landlord for letters stating that we have lived in their houses and paid rent, but i can see your point as it is still a secondary source, not primary document.

I wonder if anyone else has had a similar problem when coming from Italy. Maybe we should just get married, would that shift the emphasis from proving that we have lived together? I am ready to come home, but I wont go unless he can come.

Under normal circumstances, the letters from your landlords, if they are made as statutory declarations, become legal documents as they are not from friends and relatives. However, I can't help but wonder:

1) would your landlords really commit to writing these letters and admit that they are letting their property illegally?

2) Since the whole thing is illegal and there is no real lease contract, they would have to also proof that they own the building they claim to be illegally leasing. Otherwise, once again, immi could think that you just got a random guy to claim to be leasing his property to you.

I know that this sounds horrible, but you can't blame immi for being skeptical towards all applications until sufficient checkable proof is provided.

As far as I know (though I'm by no means sure about this), as a married couple you still need to prove that your marriage is genuine, as once again, anyone can go and get married in order to be able to get a visa. I once came across a post by a couple who still needed to provide documents and stuff like that to prove that their marriage was real.

 

[2manyjones]

I am wondering if when the Australian government finds out that our landlord in renting illegaly, they will pass it on to the Italian government. It is very common, especially in Rome and South Italy. Also there must be privacy laws or something of that nature, that makes our information confidential.

I guess it will be up to our landlords to assess, whether there is a danger there. Will have to wait and see, but its good to know that if they do sign the stat dec it becomes a legal document.

thanks once again

 

[tigris330]

I am wondering if when the Australian government finds out that our landlord in renting illegaly, they will pass it on to the Italian government. It is very common, especially in Rome and South Italy. Also there must be privacy laws or something of that nature, that makes our information confidential.

I guess it will be up to our landlords to assess, whether there is a danger there. Will have to wait and see, but its good to know that if they do sign the stat dec it becomes a legal document.

thanks once again

I don't think that's the issue. The issue, as I said, is that they would also have to provide documents to show that they actually own the property you live in. Would they be ok with doing that? And of course, immi would call them and speak to them to confirm everything. I just wonder if they would commit to all of this.

 

[Leanne]

Hi 2manyjones,

I am curious as to how your application went. I too am living in Italy with my Italian husband, for 5 years now but we too have little proof. Most of our work is cash in hand as contracts are impossible to find, it is not possible to have bills in 2 names even if you want them, and also our rents were never 'official'.

We are in the hunting gathering stage at the moment. If you read this, one suggestion is to register together with the comune. You can be registered as a nuclear family which is an official legal document which proves your commitment to each other, and the fact that the comune is aware of your situation.

Good luck, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about!

 

[2manyjones]

Hi 2manyjones,

I am curious as to how your application went. I too am living in Italy with my Italian husband, for 5 years now but we too have little proof. Most of our work is cash in hand as contracts are impossible to find, it is not possible to have bills in 2 names even if you want them, and also our rents were never 'official'.

We are in the hunting gathering stage at the moment. If you read this, one suggestion is to register together with the comune. You can be registered as a nuclear family which is an official legal document which proves your commitment to each other, and the fact that the comune is aware of your situation.

Good luck, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about!

Hi Leanne

we are still gathering info to be honest. Our landlord recently agreed to sign a lease with us, however it still presents a problem for us, as to use it as proof we really do need to wait til the end of the 12 month lease, which is 10 months away.

I would think that as you are married you dont need to prove you have lived together. Some people prefer not live together prior to marriage, so the emphasis on evidence shifts when applying for a marriage visa that you need is to prove that you are in a genuine relationship.

We have gathered evidence from hotels providing evidence that my partner came on a trip with my parents and I. My parents brought a hotel voucher in my partners name. We have had some things delivered here, so there is some proof that we live at our address. Both our landlords have agreed to provide documentation that we have lived at their address and paid rent. We are still chasing this up though.

The processing for visa applications has been centralised and now all processing occurs in Germany. Which may be to our disadvantage, as the officers may not understand the difficulties in gathering proof in Italy. I am in touch with an agency here in Italy that assists in the visa application, in fact I am have the first meeting on Monday. Let me know if you are interested in getting their details.

Cheers

 

[Leanne]

Good luck with the appointment. I hope they can help you. Not sure if you are an Italian resident, as if you are then you can get that nuclear family document I was talking about 'stato di famiglia.'

We've got a baby too so that sholud help my situation. If all fails why don't you apply for the Prospective Marriage Visa?

Best of luck x

 

[missngel]

Good luck with the appointment. I hope they can help you. Not sure if you are an Italian resident, as if you are then you can get that nuclear family document I was talking about 'stato di famiglia.'

We've got a baby too so that sholud help my situation. If all fails why don't you apply for the Prospective Marriage Visa?

Best of luck x

Hi Leanne, i would like to ask you if the 'stato di famiglia' document is only available to married couples or also defacto couples? How easy is it to get? Do you just go to the local comune with identification and declare you are a couple? Do you mind if i ask how much it costs and how long it takes to recieve?

Thanks so much for your help

 

[Leanne]

Hi Leanne, i would like to ask you if the 'stato di famiglia' document is only available to married couples or also defacto couples? How easy is it to get? Do you just go to the local comune with identification and declare you are a couple? Do you mind if i ask how much it costs and how long it takes to recieve?

Thanks so much for your help

Hi Missngel,

The stato di famiglia for us was quick and easy. It is available for everyone, married or not. We had our baby while we were de facto and this is when we asked for the stato di famiglia form. We went to the comune, they printed the document and gave it to us. It was free, but normally the fee is 0,26cents which is written on the form! We live in a small village of 800 people so it is easy to get stuff from the comune. We were already registered at the same address so it was easy.

We also have a stato di famiglia from 2008. Our comune can print old records. We lived with my husbands parents then, and the form was requested in 2010 but they gave us our family status from 2008 which is fantastic proof for the application.

Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.