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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys

My partner is Turkish and I'm Australian (both living in Istanbul) and we're just getting started on compiling our application for a PMV visa.

Do we need to have proof of our engagement? As in, a ring or official date of proposal or an engagement party? We will have the necessary docs like a NOIM with planned date for our wedding but do we need anything for before that?

We want to be together forever but neither of us is into the romanticism of an engagement or wedding. We're not interested in engagement parties or weddings or diamond rings, we just want to be together! We just want it so that we can start a life together in Australia that we wouldn't otherwise be able to have in Turkey (and money that we can instead spend on a farm!!). Are any of those things actually necessary for the visa? We're happy to do them if needed but for us, we just want a simple, quiet life together in Aus.

My proposal from him was literally in the airport. We had been thinking heavily about visas and what to do and right before I went through the security gates (he had to work so couldn't join me-I am just away to visit) he just said 'if it means I can be with you forever without any distance or trouble I would like to marry you'. He said on one of our first dates he didn't at all believe in marriage and I've never really given much thought, so for me his 'proposal' signifies so much more since he is willing to change his values for the sake of being with me but do others see it like that? it's not an overly romantic thing when put on paper but for me it's all I need. Commitment to each other without any need for frills. My question is whether Australian immigration will see it like that?
 

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The PMV (Prospective Marriage Visa) is also known as a "fiance/e" visa for a reason. As a fiance visa, marriage is absolutely 100% required. You don't need to have an expensive ring or an engagement party (though both are good evidence), but the WEDDING part is definitely required. You have to marry within nine months after your visa being approved or it will be cancelled. (And you can't marry BEFORE your visa is granted, either - has to be in the nine month period after it's granted).

If you don't want to marry, you'll need to meet the requirements for a de facto visa (living together for a year or longer, with evidence of that) and apply for that visa instead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The PMV (Prospective Marriage Visa) is also known as a "fiance/e" visa for a reason. As a fiance visa, marriage is absolutely 100% required. You don't need to have an expensive ring or an engagement party (though both are good evidence), but the WEDDING part is definitely required. You have to marry within nine months after your visa being approved or it will be cancelled. (And you can't marry BEFORE your visa is granted, either - has to be in the nine month period after it's granted).

If you don't want to marry, you'll need to meet the requirements for a de facto visa (living together for a year or longer, with evidence of that) and apply for that visa instead.
It's not that we don't want to marry--it's that we don't want a big, expensive fuss or engagement or ring beforehand. The wedding or marriage is not a chore or something we are begrudgingly doing. For us marriage is what allows a couple to be together freely and easily, it's not about the extra things like fancy parties or jewellery that are now completely associated with marriage. We are happy to marry since we plan to spend the rest of our lives together anyway but we would simply like to do it without the unnecessary fuss.

We are doing this to be together forever, not simply because we want a ring or marital status for the sake of it.

We are both happy to marry if it means we can be together permanently in Australia, I just wanted some insight as to whether we need all the extra stuff in terms of proposal or engagement. The wedding itself will be no problem and we're happy to do that in Aus if/when we are granted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The PMV (Prospective Marriage Visa) is also known as a "fiance/e" visa for a reason. As a fiance visa, marriage is absolutely 100% required. You don't need to have an expensive ring or an engagement party (though both are good evidence), but the WEDDING part is definitely required. You have to marry within nine months after your visa being approved or it will be cancelled. (And you can't marry BEFORE your visa is granted, either - has to be in the nine month period after it's granted).

If you don't want to marry, you'll need to meet the requirements for a de facto visa (living together for a year or longer, with evidence of that) and apply for that visa instead.
It's not that we don't want to marry--it's that we don't want a big, expensive fuss or engagement or ring beforehand. The wedding or marriage is not a chore or something we are begrudgingly doing. For us marriage is what allows a couple to be together freely and easily, it's not about the extra things like fancy parties or jewellery that are now completely associated with marriage. We are happy to marry since we plan to spend the rest of our lives together anyway but we would simply like to do it without the unnecessary fuss.

We are doing this to be together forever, not simply because we want a ring or marital status for the sake of it.

We are both happy to marry if it means we can be together permanently in Australia, I just wanted some insight as to whether we need all the extra stuff in terms of proposal or engagement. The wedding itself will be no problem and we're happy to do that in Aus if/when we are granted.
 

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It really does depend on the offshore post. Some of them want to know all about the engagement party and the ring etc.

For my fiancee in his country a man wears an engagement ring too. The case officer asked him why he did not have one and he told her that in Australia men don't wear them and she goes "I have never heard that". Luckily I had a ring ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Maybe I should clarify. We value marriage, we just don't value weddings. Or engagement parties or expensive rings. To us marriage is simply a symbol of unity and not a symbol of big engagements and rings and dresses (purely personal--many of my friends are married and I was honoured to attend their ceremonies and receptions and I support anyone who does value these things)

Of course we will marry in Australia and it will be a fun event with close family and friends to share. What we want to know is whether or not engagement parties or expensive rings and months of elaborate party planning are necessary. They aren't necessary for us so we wanted to know if they are necessary for the immigration office.
 

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It's not that we don't want to marry--it's that we don't want a big, expensive fuss or engagement or ring beforehand. The wedding or marriage is not a chore or something we are begrudgingly doing. For us marriage is what allows a couple to be together freely and easily, it's not about the extra things like fancy parties or jewellery that are now completely associated with marriage. We are happy to marry since we plan to spend the rest of our lives together anyway but we would simply like to do it without the unnecessary fuss.

We are doing this to be together forever, not simply because we want a ring or marital status for the sake of it.

We are both happy to marry if it means we can be together permanently in Australia, I just wanted some insight as to whether we need all the extra stuff in terms of proposal or engagement. The wedding itself will be no problem and we're happy to do that in Aus if/when we are granted.
If you've agreed to get married, that in itself is an "engagement."

But as Mish said, different embassies sometimes expect different levels of pomp and circumstance. Since your partner is from a high-risk country, I might err on the side of caution. You don't want them questioning the legitimacy of your relationship.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It really does depend on the offshore post. Some of them want to know all about the engagement party and the ring etc.

For my fiancee in his country a man wears an engagement ring too. The case officer asked him why he did not have one and he told her that in Australia men don't wear them and she goes "I have never heard that". Luckily I had a ring ;)
Thanks Mish! From everything I have read (and my brain is starting to turn to pickle from so much reading!!) so far it seems that it can entirely depend on what the case office specifically wants!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If you've agreed to get married, that in itself is an "engagement."

But as Mish said, different embassies sometimes expect different levels of pomp and circumstance. Since your partner is from a high-risk country, I might err on the side of caution. You don't want them questioning the legitimacy of your relationship.
Totally, thanks for your reply too (I'm super new to this!)--I just wondered whether we needed a big elaborate story of how we became engaged (proposing on a mountain or a ring in the champagne etc) which we obviously don't have so I wondered if our story of engagement was enough. I don't want to lie on the app naturally, I'm just trying to figure out how to make the best of what we have and our true story which is what they want I guess. I'm just afraid of falling short! We decided quite late that we wanted our life to be in Australia so we haven't been spending our relationship collecting 'evidence' and now I feel like we won't have enough!

I think we will have a small party in Turkey with his family, they'll no doubt throw one regardless!

It does seem to come down to the case officer. And I think you're right, Turkish people LOVE weddings and big celebrations so she/he might be expecting something from us!
 

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My fiance proposed to me over the phone, lol. I mean, I can't say for sure since we haven't been approved yet, but I don't think it matters how... as long as it happened, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
My fiance proposed to me over the phone, lol. I mean, I can't say for sure since we haven't been approved yet, but I don't think it matters how... as long as it happened, lol.
Haha, that's adorable! When he asked (well, told me!) he'd marry me I thought "So, there's my first proposal!' and even that thought didn't come until a day later when it really sunk in!

I guess the nature of international relationships is never going to be straight forward so they must understand things don't always go the traditional route. Good luck with your application!!
 

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Thanks -- you too! :) Right now I just have a "placeholder" ring because we knew the immigration process was going to be so expensive (medical issues on my part) - but when I get over there we're going ring shopping together - and he's so sweet and romantic I don't doubt there will be a much different proposal that comes along with that ring. :)
 
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I guess the nature of international relationships is never going to be straight forward so they must understand things don't always go the traditional route. Good luck with your application!!
i can't agree no more with the international relationships. to be honest, my partner and i are happy to get married (even if it's just signing our marriage certificate at the birth, death and marriage registration centre - and that means i am sacrificing my dream of a wonderful proposal then a damn expensive white wedding party). but his family is not happy with that decision because apparently, if we get married so that i can stay in australia, it makes them feel like "i'm using him to get my PR status" which sort of puts me off but when i got calmer and looked at the whole thing from their perspective, i could see a point. anyway, at the end of the day, when we are in the situation where we are now, we're willing to do anything as long as we can be together.

from what i've been told by a person who successfully got granted PMV, you just have to make it clear in your forms/stat decs that you and your partner are intending to get married by all means.

i didn't see ring or anything according to my observation last time (and first time) i saw her and she is from a high-risk country. we aren't that close so i didn't dare to ask for more personal question.

i hope this helps. and best of luck for your application.

-2110Lin
 

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My fiance proposed to me over the phone, lol. I mean, I can't say for sure since we haven't been approved yet, but I don't think it matters how... as long as it happened, lol.
I actually have the exact question which was asked originally but apparently no one really answered!

I am on the same road, I just want to bring my fiance here after being approved for PMV, then within 9 months go to our marriage celebrant to officially marry but withought a big wedding party! off course we're gonna have family gathering, but not any of those expensive big wedding parties!

so, if we mention that that's our plan, do you think they might get suspected of us?

Thanks very much
 

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My fiance and I never had an engagement party and never mentioned what kind of wedding we would have - just supplied the NOIM and the celebrant letter and his visa was approved.
 

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My fiance and I never had an engagement party and never mentioned what kind of wedding we would have - just supplied the NOIM and the celebrant letter and his visa was approved.
thnaks very much for the prompt answer as usual! how about the engagement rings? did you show the reciede or a picture of them or your hands having the rings as part of your application attachments?
 

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thnaks very much for the prompt answer as usual! how about the engagement rings? did you show the reciede or a picture of them or your hands having the rings as part of your application attachments?
Hi!

I don't think its important to show picture wearing the ring! lol! In my case I just show picture of us together, and I just stated we got engaged in this Date--- ... fancy rings and expensive wedding are not necessary to have a happy married life. It's just people have their own preference to what wedding they would like. .

Just state when u got engaged and where, and set date of your wedding, just be who you are. ;) and get married before pmv expire .

our celebrant asked me and my fiancé if what type of wedding we would like , if we want funky wedding such as wearing cartoon character costumes. I made it brutally clear to my fiancé that I certainly do not want to look like Donald duck or Benten on my wedding day...lol

ty
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I actually have the exact question which was asked originally but apparently no one really answered!

I am on the same road, I just want to bring my fiance here after being approved for PMV, then within 9 months go to our marriage celebrant to officially marry but withought a big wedding party! off course we're gonna have family gathering, but not any of those expensive big wedding parties!

so, if we mention that that's our plan, do you think they might get suspected of us?

Thanks very much
We have the same plan! Neither of us wants a big flouncy wedding! Just a relaxed, friendly picnic with those we love. There are as many kinds of weddings as there are people, so I don't think it's fair for a case officer to judge what an acceptable wedding is. It will be our perfect day, but perfect our way, and that's how we're planning to outline it in our app.
 

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I actually have the exact question which was asked originally but apparently no one really answered!

I am on the same road, I just want to bring my fiance here after being approved for PMV, then within 9 months go to our marriage celebrant to officially marry but withought a big wedding party! off course we're gonna have family gathering, but not any of those expensive big wedding parties!

so, if we mention that that's our plan, do you think they might get suspected of us?

Thanks very much[\

just tell the truth that your really plan if your fiance is getting there in oz...
 
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