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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, i would like some advice on our current situation.

My fiance from the Philippines has visited Australia once before for just over 8 months from 17th Aug 2016 to 26th Apr 2017, it was originally on a 3 month Visitor Visa 600, but we also got a 6 month extension.

Recently i applied for another visitor visa 600 for a 3 month stay, was trying to bring her out for another visit in December.

I just got the results today and they have refused her next visa, details below-

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Notification of refusal of application for a Visitor (class FA) Visitor (Tourist) (subclass600) visa

Refused Applicant
I wish to advise you that the application for this visa has been refused on 16 November 2017

Review rights
There is no right of merits review for this decision.


Findings
On the basis of all the information available to me, including the documents and informationthe applicant provided, I find that the criteria for the grant of a Visitor (Tourist) visa are not met the applicant.

Reasons
I have assessed the application and the reasons for my decision are detailed below:

A valid application for a Visitor (Tourist) visa has been made by the applicant.

Under migration law, a visa cannot be granted unless the applicant meets the relevel legal requirements that are specified in the Act and the Regulations. Subclause 600.211 has not been met by the applicant on the date I made my decision. This provision states that:

600.211 The applicant genuinely intends to stay temporarily in Australia for the purpose for which the visa is granted, having regard to:

(a) whether the applicant has complied substantially with the conditions to which the last
substantive visa, or any subsequent bridging visa, held by the applicant was subject;
and
(b) whether the applicant intends to comply with the conditions to which the Subclass 600
visa would be subject; and
(c) any other relevant matter.

The applicant is seeking a stay of 3 months (01 December 2017 to 01 March 2018) in Australia in this application. Departmental records show that she has already spent 8 months(253 days) in Australia, from 17 August 2016 to 26 April 2017. There is no evidence before me that she did not comply with the conditions of the last visa, and she departed Australia before the expiry of the last visa.

Applicants for a Visitor Visa need to satisfy the decision-maker that they are a genuine visitor. Policy provides further guidance on how to assess this, and in particular, provides guidance in relation to applicants who have already spent significant periods of time in Australia. A Visitor Visa is only for visits and cannot be used to stay in Australia on an ongoing basis.

Given the extended period of stay that the applicant has already spent in Australia, I do not consider a shorter period of stay appropriate at this stage.

As the applicant does not meet the genuine temporary stay requirement, I find that she does not meet subclause 600.211.

Decision
As subclause 600.211 is not met by the applicant, I find the criteria for the grant of a Visitor(Tourist) visa in the Tourist stream are not met by the applicant, and thus the applicant does not meet the criteria for the grant of a Visitor (Tourist) visa. I therefore find the criteria for the grant of a Visitor visa are not met by the applicant.

Therefore, I refuse the application by the applicant for a Visitor visa.

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I would to know what our best options are now, i gather this can't be appealed, or it would be to long of process to appeal.

We can try reapply for another Visitor visa, but i gather if we did that to soon that we would get the same result and be refused again for the same reasons they have stated on this current refusal.

I think our only option might be to wait longer before we reapply for another visitor visa, but would like some advice and help on what we should do.

Should we wait until next year to reapply? How long after her first 8 month visit here should we wait before we apply again, she was last in Australia on the 26th of april 2017.

Any help would be much appreciated, we are both upset over the news of the refusal today, and need some guidance moving forward.

Thanks.
 

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Have you applied for a PMV since she is your fiance? You may have better results if you re-apply after lodging a PMV.

I can see what the case officer is getting at ... to them it looks like she is living in Australia on a tourist visa.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Have you applied for a PMV since she is your fiance? You may have better results if you re-apply after lodging a PMV.

I can see what the case officer is getting at ... to them it looks like she is living in Australia on a tourist visa.
Hi, thanks for that.

I have to say our intentions were that if she had gotten this next visitor visa ok, that we were planning on marrying and applying for onshore partner visa while she was here.

The immigration was not aware of any of this though so the refusal was for other reasons.
I do realise that the plan we had is probably frowned down upon and i guess it's a loophole, but other people we know of done things this way and succeeded.

I can see why they have refused her visitor visa, in that she has already spent a lot of time here on her previous visit.

I am just unsure of what to do now, it's either we wait maybe 3-4 more months and try for another visitor visa, or like you suggested maybe we should apply for an offshore PMV, then wait it out while the process it.

I am not rich, so if we did apply for a PMV, even though i could try to get her another visitor visa in the meantime while they process the PMV, it all adds to the costs in which i may not be able to afford it all.

I am starting to think we should go the PMV route and just wait it out.
Do you think this is the better way to go about things? Compared to the risks in trying for another visitor visa next year(with plans to marry and do onshore partner visa)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
What did you include in your application for reasons to return and not needing to work on a Visitor Visa from this DIBP policy?

http://www.australiaforum.com/visas-immigration/159538-pam-3-old-out-date.html
My Fiance had a letter from her employee stating she had work to return to in the Philippines.
We also showed lots of photo evidence of her ties with her family in the Philippines.

As far as immigration knew, she was coming here for a holiday and taking a break away from her work, and that i would be supporting her financially on her stay here.
We provided the same things with this visa app, as we did with her first visitor visa application last year which was approved back then.

The issue we had this time i think, was because she has already spent a long period of time here on her first holiday, and maybe it's to soon to come back for another visit.

This extract from the visa refusal letter seems to be the main reason-

"The applicant is seeking a stay of 3 months (01 December 2017 to 01 March 2018) in Australia in this application.
Departmental records show that she has already spent 8 months(253 days) in Australia, from 17 August 2016 to 26 April 2017.

A Visitor Visa is only for visits and cannot be used to stay in Australia on an ongoing basis.
Given the extended period of stay that the applicant has already spent in Australia, I do not consider a shorter period of stay appropriate at this stage.

As the applicant does not meet the genuine temporary stay requirement, I find that she does not meet subclause 600.211."

Edit -This DIBP policy you mention, is there something i am missing that i should of used from it? Can you provide a link to this policy?
 

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That is PAM 3 an old one I used years ago when I had visitor visas refused (I did make a few changes and notes in it but that's all I have).

Registered Migration Agents must have a current subscription and I think that is around $800 a year (that covers all visas I believe).

Yes listing the 253 days does seem the issue - but they don't list all reasons on the refusal letters so there may be other reasons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That is PAM 3 an old one I used years ago when I had visitor visas refused (I did make a few changes and notes in it but that's all I have).

Registered Migration Agents must have a current subscription and I think that is around $800 a year (that covers all visas I believe).

Yes listing the 253 days does seem the issue - but they don't list all reasons on the refusal letters so there may be other reasons.
Thank you. I will give it a good read.

If we were to look at another visitor visa application at a later time, how long do you think we should wait before applying again?
 

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Use a RMA and tomorrow will be fine.

I did 3 consecutive (as fast as possible) - but you will be foolish not to use a RMA now if you want a visa since she left without her being offshore 12-18 months in my opinion.

I think it is Westly that is a RMA on this forum that works lots in your partners area, but I could be wrong it may be another.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Use a RMA and tomorrow will be fine.

I did 3 consecutive (as fast as possible) - but you will be foolish not to use a RMA now if you want a visa since she left without her being offshore 12-18 months in my opinion.

I think it is Westly that is a RMA on this forum that works lots in your partners area, but I could be wrong it may be another.
Thanks mate.

So do you think it's worth trying for another visitor visa as soon as possible then? And it's no problem doing back to back visa applications after a refusal?

Or is it maybe best waiting it out, and maybe trying again after 12months or so of her being offshore?

I know a RMA would do a better job of the application then i can do, but i did feel i did a decent effort with it and provided them lots of additional attachments, proof, letters etc.
I had done my fiances visitor visa app last year, plus i did her extension app as well and it all went well then.

What advantages is there getting a RMA to do the app for us, how could they help persuade things in our favour?
There is also the cost of an RMA for me to consider, as most of the ones i looked at online were very expensive.

As for Westly, i just found his contact info on here from this post-
http://www.australiaforum.com/visas-immigration/252474-registered-migration-agents.html#post1729882
I think i will take your advice and contact him to see what he thinks of our situation.

But some general advice to the questions i asked above would be very much appreciated.
 

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I don't give much advice these days - getting old and fading memory I guess.

I sent a PM that will show what a RMA can do to address PAM 3 - and that is confidential so don't even post part of it any place.

Other members and even RMA's often read these/my posts and they probably will chime in with good comments.

* The newer members that have studied lots don't post much if the more senior members post - so I hope you understand that I will only slightly guide you.
 

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I am wondering if part of the issue also is the extension that you applied for last time.

So say last time you provided a HR letter saying she had leave from x date to x date and the you went and applied for a visa extension, this time they would have a hard time believing that the leave is from x date to x date because last time she stayed longer than the leave.

Only the case officer knows why they rejected it but if I was a case officer that is what I would be thinking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I don't give much advice these days - getting old and fading memory I guess.

I sent a PM that will show what a RMA can do to address PAM 3 - and that is confidential so don't even post part of it any place.

Other members and even RMA's often read these/my posts and they probably will chime in with good comments.

* The newer members that have studied lots don't post much if the more senior members post - so I hope you understand that I will only slightly guide you.
Thank you very much!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I am wondering if part of the issue also is the extension that you applied for last time.

So say last time you provided a HR letter saying she had leave from x date to x date and the you went and applied for a visa extension, this time they would have a hard time believing that the leave is from x date to x date because last time she stayed longer than the leave.

Only the case officer knows why they rejected it but if I was a case officer that is what I would be thinking.
Your possible right there mate!

I have also contacted westly for some advice and the possibility of using his services if were to try again, being an agent maybe he will know what is the best plan.
 

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Your possible right there mate!

I have also contacted westly for some advice and the possibility of using his services if were to try again, being an agent maybe he will know what is the best plan.
They are all good - but I think it is Westly seems to know a lot about that area - but I maybe wrong - it may be another.
 

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I am wondering if part of the issue also is the extension that you applied for last time.

So say last time you provided a HR letter saying she had leave from x date to x date and the you went and applied for a visa extension, this time they would have a hard time believing that the leave is from x date to x date because last time she stayed longer than the leave.

Only the case officer knows why they rejected it but if I was a case officer that is what I would be thinking.
Yes Mish an addressing of the 12 in 18 month may have helped also - no the other reasons are on the file of the application. I was going to request them but can not now.
 

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I had a similar case a while ago, also from the Philippines. They did a number of tourist visa applications, both offshore and onshore and eventually it was deemed she had spent too much time in Australia and the last application was refused.

I applied for a new 3 month visa for her after about a year and it was granted. There are a number of ways to address the issues that may arise, which I will not disclose here, as they should be adjusted to each individual case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I had a similar case a while ago, also from the Philippines. They did a number of tourist visa applications, both offshore and onshore and eventually it was deemed she had spent too much time in Australia and the last application was refused.

I applied for a new 3 month visa for her after about a year and it was granted. There are a number of ways to address the issues that may arise, which I will not disclose here, as they should be adjusted to each individual case.
Hi and thanks!

So would it be best to just wait until she has been out of Australia for at least 1yr before trying again?

Or is there other options that might help our situation at the moment?
 

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Hi and thanks!

So would it be best to just wait until she has been out of Australia for at least 1yr before trying again?

Or is there other options that might help our situation at the moment?
There is no one-size-fits-all golden rule, but DIBP typically looks at some balance between visits. Other than that, you will have to address "genuine visitor" requirements every time.
 
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