PM Visa reassurances. Beijing office.

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PM Visa reassurances. Beijing office.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2012, 04:49 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 35
Users Flag! From mongolia

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820 Visa

Hello peoples, I have been reading lots of people's experiences and it seems I have nothing to worry about. If people get visas approved for only spending a handful of days together, it makes me happy. But maybe some more wise people might be able to help me a little bit.

I came to Mongolia 10 months ago with the sole purpose to learn Mongolian Language. Within the first 2 days I met a pretty girl who wanted to improve her English.
She visited my home at least once every week(sometimes twice) and we wrote sentences together, read things and spoke because we wanted to improve our foreign language. She had a middle level of English and I knew not a single word of Mongolian at the start!

After 2 or 3 months she let me into her home and I met her family. From then on I would usually visit her family once every 10 days and have a meal with them. Around this time we began speaking every day.

A month or 2 later, things clicked and we both found our first loves. (Not bad for two 25 year olds! haha).

We have been close for about 6 months and lovers for 3 or 4 months, during this time we have decided to get married and be together forever.
We talked about staying in Mongolia or going to Australia together. Honestly, it seems we will both be happy with either. Short story. We think Australia is better for our lives at this time.

Things that worry me are how to actually prove that we have built our relationship. Obviously I can write the above in more detail but am worried about how to prove this. We always seem to end up going to the market together, going for walks after she finishes work, visiting her Uncle, cousins and Grandmother together. Which is what I think couples should do. But I can't prove this to someone behind a desk in any real way. We have just 2 or 3 photos together, but maybe that is ok.

We can get statutory declarations from members of her family about these things. They will all be in Mongolian and translated. Do these hold the same significance as if they were done in Australia?

My brothers know how serious our relationship is, but my family will not have a chance to meet my partner until we hopefully both go to Australia. So my family cannot provide these declarations. My parents know we are together, but they have no idea about our plans. I want to surprise them one day by just going to their home and saying " HEY This is my Mongol, we are getting married! They would love it

I am in Mongolia doing a 2 year language course, living of my savings and not working. My course will finish in June 2013 and then I will return home and start working again. I think I have sufficient savings to provide for 2 people in Aus without work for some time. But if we apply for a visa soon, I may have been 2 years without working. Could this possibly be a problem?

Does anyone here have specific information about the Beijing office and what sort of things turn them on? My Mongolian visa will finish around July next year. I read some visas may take 1 year. We really want to leave Mongolia together, so it seems that we need to start applying very soon. If we are lucky enough to get a visa, I think we will head to Aus immediately.

She is sick of her 50+ hour a week job for less than $60 a week. While irrelevant, this alone makes me want to take her to Aus and put her to work in a fair(ish) place. In Mongolia, this is the sort of job and salary a super smart young lady gets after finishing a 5 year International Law degree at University. It is wrong

If anyone could help me with the info I wrote or specific info applying from this part of the world, I would be very grateful!

Last edited by MrCAMEL; 02-22-2014 at 06:18 AM.

  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2012, 07:59 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 199
Users Flag! From portugal

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Hi mycamel

Proof of your relationship is very important to prove your relationship is geniuine. If you are having a hard time with proof then maybe you need to gather some more evidence. Phone calls, traveling together, bills etc. All this helps build a solid application.
Imagine tha your the case officer and you get an application with very little evidence, would you believe it genuine?

So spend some time gathering proof, take more pictures with family, at parties, phone records ofrom the beginning of your relationship. And also you should have a 12 month relationship which can be wav on prospective marriage however it will entire be up to the case officer to accept such a short period.

You still have some time on your side and you can work on gathering enough information to lodge a successful application.

All the best


  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2012, 08:12 AM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 254
Users Flag! From singapore

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hello mycamel,

yes you do need a fair lot of paper evidences. Have you read the Partner Migration Booklet? What you've seen in this forums are really a lot of bits and pieces and if you want a true holistic picture of what you need to gather, the booklet would be the your Bible. It lists down the different categories for which you have to start gathering evidences of.

Good luck and all the best!

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2012, 09:05 AM
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Posts: 35
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I don't really know how to write what I want in the best way.

Here in Mongolia, (although now changing) it seems everyone just uses a cash, "paper free" system. There are no 'bills' as such. The water, electricity people, internet people just come to your home and you pay the cash. I have never heard of anyone pay a 'phone bill' here. You just buy a card from the street or pay at the company office. That's it.

Even if we did live together, I wouldn't know how to get any actual solid paper evidence of any of the 'normal' expenses couples have in my other country.

Whilst never mentioned on the PMV website, so many people seem obsessed with facebook chat, messenger chat and other internet communication. Do you wise people think this is good, reliable evidence?

Sometimes we communicate on the internet. But usually we spend time WITH each other.
I found 1 interesting thing. My phone has a connection counter on it. From the middle of November last year, we have made 2260 connections (messages, phone calls) with each other. HAHA

There is no way get paper evidence of having a meal with the family, going to the market or just being together like couples do.

I actually have read every page of the relevant documents/booklets many times.

"Written statements from you and from your fiancé detailing the history of your relationship (for example when and how you met, when you became engaged, joint activities, significant events in the relationship) and your future plans as husband and wife."

"Prospective Marriage visa applicants are also required to provide similar statements from persons who can support their claims of their fi ancé(e) relationship and its development."

This is what we can do. We can both write, and we can get 10 members of her family to write relevant statments about us to the above.

By the end of the month I should be renting a room from and living with her sister and brother in-law in their brand new apartment. She said she would visit me a lot, maybe even live with me.
Maybe the 2 of us can sign a 'lease' together. Then the lease would be between 1 sister and my partner and I. It doesn't really sound like solid evidence. But, we'll see.

But, it seems like we have some work and thinking to do, somehow

  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2012, 09:12 AM
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Location: Brisbane
Posts: 254
Users Flag! From singapore

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hi mrcamel, it seems that you're in the middle of a unique situation. If you really want to know how to go about with the application the best and right way without risking your application being denied, then my recommendation to you would be to consult a migration agent.


  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2012, 03:37 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Jordan
Posts: 456
Users Flag! From australia

344 likes received
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How to leave a paper trail in a paperless culture?

Four years ago I was pondering the same question, after I had fallen in love with my now-husband in Jordan.

In Jordan - well, at least the rural part of the country where my husband was living - if bills exist they are in the landlord's name, people get paid in cash so don't need bank accounts, agreements are made on the basis of a handshake (including rental contracts), and no one ever has a formal residential address because many of the streets aren't named, nor does any house have a number! If anything is ever registered in someone's personal name, it can be in one name only (usually the husband's - marriage is a requirement to live together).

All this makes it very tricky to provide evidence of anything to a country that works on bureaucracy (i.e. the Western world).

First of all though, you guys need some more time behind you. Most importantly because a longer relationship is looked upon more favourably, and also because more time will give you more opportunities to collect evidence.

We had to get creative (and sometimes very insistent) with that latter part.
Here are some leaves out of our book:
  • open a joint bank account - this will definitely be possible at a
    bank with some international standing (there must be something
    suitable in Ulan Bataar?)
  • start making transfers to it from your personal Australian or
    personal Mongolian bank account and save the receipts
  • see if you can rent a flat together from an independent landlord
    (i.e. not sharing with you), and insist on a lease being written up
    with both your names, including numbers of your passports/
    residence permits/national identity documents, and make sure to
    both sign it
  • take a plane trip together - anywhere, even an hour away within
    the same country - and save your joint tickets and boarding passes
    to show you sat next to each other on the flight
  • when you write up your tax return a few days from now (July 1)
    think about putting her down as your 'spouse' and mark the day you
    began your relationship. Then a few months down the track after
    you've received your tax assessment, make a request from the ATO
    for paper copies of your past tax returns (this will require someone
    back in Australia filling out and sending out the form for you, but very
    easily done)
  • take more photographs together, especially of you both with
    different family members and friends, on more than one occasion
  • if you can, find a club that supports a mutual interest of yours and
    become joint members - especially if the club gives out membership
    cards (perhaps get closer to the expat community to find possibilities
    - it might be small, but birds of a feather do flock together)
  • open a post office box (jointly if possible, but this might not be
    accepted), and have family and friends from Australia send you letters
    and packages addressed in both your names
  • if any of your friends or family back in Australia are planning to get
    engaged or married, etc. ask them to invite you both and send the
    formal invitation to your Mongolian post office box

Your best bets for getting pieces of paper lie in organisations or corporations that have international ties, and most of these will be located in the capital.

No guarantees that these ideas will do the trick, as we ourselves have literally just submitted our application (after four years together in the paperless society), but it goes to show that some creative thinking can go a long way.

Wishing you all the best in your life together

rufa likes this.

Last edited by Adventuress; 06-21-2012 at 03:41 PM. Reason: touch-up

  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2012, 01:00 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 67
Users Flag! From germany

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I have just read about "Statutory declarations" for my own application yesterday.

It said, that the person filling it out MUST be an Australian resident or PR. As you should collect at least two if these, they suggested to do some Skype calls, so that your parents/friends are able to see your girlfriend and sign that they know the situation and about your relationship (I think it is not worth waiting to tell them just for the "surprise bit" ;-)

Google "Statutory Declaration Form 888" and you find the forms on which it tells you about the requirements.

All the best!!

  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2012, 11:02 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 35
Users Flag! From mongolia

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Ok peoples, thanks for your information. There are several things we can do together from that list. We can get a bank account and post box together. It is summer now so we can do things outside together now. :P Over the coming months we will have some work to do and things to think about!!

I read this from the Australian Embassy in China. So these statements probably are not very official, but just extra info.
"9. Do statements from friends and relatives have to be on a Form 888?

If the person making a statement regarding their knowledge of your relationship is an Australian citizen or permanent resident, then this statement should be made on Form 888. If you are outside Australia, and the person making the statement is not an Australian citizen or permanent resident, a written statement is acceptable."

  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2012, 05:17 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 35
Users Flag! From mongolia

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Yesterday my partner and I completed our NOIM form, complying fully with Australian and Mongolian law.
But I am confused as to what actually took place. In Ulaanbaatar, it seems on every corner there is a "Нотариат", notary office, and it seems they are always full of people. Almost every document I have seen people carrying has a notary's stamp on it.

There is a small Australian consular office in Ulaanbaatar. It was going to cost 52,000 locals or $40 for the guy to sign our form.
So we decided to go the local way, permitted by law.

We got the forms translated as required by Mongolian Law and officially stamped at a notariat. Then our forms were witnessed by the notary. We told the notary not to stamp our documents and they thought we were silly. I assumed this stamp has no value in Australian law.

But after I was thinking and wondering how to prove that a real notary witnessed our signature. I think I made a mistake. Do you think I made a mistake by not getting a notay's stamp? Will this ever be checked in Australia?

In the end, it cost us 13,500 local currencies to get the signatures, compared to the 52,000. So we saved almost $30. It is interesting

  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2012, 11:49 AM
Active Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 35
Users Flag! From mongolia

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Hello people. I thought I would write something here because that is what people do. Soon we will send our application. I thought I would write everything we have to see I people think we have missed anything important and our evidences are ok for a PMV.
Do you think it is important to include some communication evidence from before we were a couple? Im not keen on the instant messenger chat logs, or facebook messages, but it seems like it can't hurt. We have plenty of yahoo messenger chat before and after we became a couple.

We will send all the needed forms and checklists and my statements about not working, living in Mongolia and being able to provide for my partner in Aus. Passports, birth certificates, photos and documents.

From the “4 aspects of the relationship” we have as follows.

Financial aspects and The nature of the household

We just have 1 statement from a Mongolian bank that shows we have a semi significant term deposit in both our names (her name was added after I had created the account). This has no actual function (other that get me 13.44% interest a year!!), but at least it shows we do have money together.
Proving we share expenses is almost impossible here unless we buy a big thing like a house or car or rent a house through a company. This is ok because we just want a PMV. We have just written in our statements that we share everything including money and help each other with everything at home.

Social context of the relationship

The first letter from my mother sent me after I told her we were getting married, and card of congratulations from my uncle sent to our PO box in Ulaanbaatar.
Messages of congratulations from family and friends on facebook.
2 statutory declarations from Mother and brother stating they know we love each other.
1 statement from my mother in-law about us
Photos of us together with our Mongolian family at different times.

The nature of your commitment to each other

I think this is a bit difficult, but we have a letter from a marriage celebrant stating we will get married.
We also have what we wrote in our relationship statements.

I may have missed something. But I think that is all.

We really cannot get any more hard evidence for ourselves in this country. So if they ask for more evidence I don't know what we can do.
I trust this is enough. So now we have to organise and send everything and wait!!

Also, Mongolians never talk about anything that may be considered bad or unfavourable. So we have never written "if we get a visa" it is always "when the visa is granted . . ." I think it is ok, but in some countries I suspect it might come off as a bit arrogant. I hope this is ok. I mean, of cause it is.

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