Citizenship changes - Page 48

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Citizenship changes - Page 48


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  #471 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2017, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mish View Post
Interesting you say that. My husband and I go to the movies alot and he said that going to the movies has improved his English alot and he increases his vocabulary from the movies too.

You should get her to watch 90 day fiance ... it is all about the American PMV process.
My wife said she began by watching movies and now likes to watch the same movies again, now she can understand everything.

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  #472 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2017, 12:39 PM
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Why would Joe who came to Australia on a 309 visa and is married to an Australian citizen, work as bus driver ever need IELTS band 6?
( my neighbour's situation)

2 Years as a PR and IELTS Band 5 is a good compromise.


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  #473 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2017, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by FutureCitizen View Post
Why would Joe who came to Australia on a 309 visa and is married to an Australian citizen, work as bus driver ever need IELTS band 6?
( my neighbour's situation)

2 Years as a PR and IELTS Band 5 is a good compromise.
Improving English might just help in getting a better job.
I know one example of a new migrant starting at McDonald's putting burgers in bread buns, improved English, and now makes decisions that affect people.

Without improving English that would never have happened.

But, it is peoples choice. If people don't want to try, then it isn't compulsory.

Band 5 isn't a great level of English. A partial command of the language, with many mistakes. Maybe worth persevering for a higher grasp of the language of ones citizenship.


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  #474 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2017, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureCitizen View Post
Why would Joe who came to Australia on a 309 visa and is married to an Australian citizen, work as bus driver ever need IELTS band 6?
( my neighbour's situation)

2 Years as a PR and IELTS Band 5 is a good compromise.
Maybe Joe does not want to be a bus driver forever and it will help him to improve his English to get better opportunities. Maybe Joe gets made redundant and needs to find another job and having good English skills will help.

I would also think that a bus driver would have good English communications and should be able to get an IELTS score of 6.

Joe also needs to know how to communicate in English incase something happens to his wife and he needs to talk to a doctor etc and get her help.

There are a lot of people out there where they get their children to communicate on their behalf, this requirement would actually push people to learn English.


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  #475 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2017, 02:10 PM
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How is someone supposed to improve aka study full time when he or she has a full-time job?
I remember when I did my English course at TAFE, around %20 of the newcomers that the Centrelink was forcing them to do courses never finished the Course but instead got full-time jobs at the target, burger king and others as waitresses and chefs at the local restaurants.

Do you think that blue collar 7th generation Australians who literally only have about 100 English words in their vocabulary ever be able to score 6 in the IELTS test or Senator Hanson who dropped out of school at the age of 15 and married a Polish immigrant at the age of 16 is
able to score 6 at the IELTS?

Many people would rather make money than study!


Last edited by FutureCitizen; 06-25-2017 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Added more...

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  #476 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2017, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by FutureCitizen View Post
How is someone supposed to improve aka study full time when he or she has a full-time job?
The same as what Australian citizens do ... either work full time and study part time OR study full time and work part time.

They do not need to study full time, they can study part time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureCitizen View Post
I remember when I did my English course at TAFE, around %20 of the newcomers that the Centrelink was forcing them to do courses never finished the Course but instead got full-time jobs at the target, burger king and others as waitresses and chefs at the local restaurants.
The jobs you mention they are all losing their penalty rates from 1 July, therefore those working in those jobs will be making less money from 1 July, therefore better English would be more beneficial for them to get a better job. Also some people also target people with limited English and try to underpay them or pay them cash without paying them super because they think with limited English they will not understand what their rights are.

Also with those jobs once a person turns 21 they tend to cut their hours because really why pay someone an adult wage when you can pay a 16 year to do the same thing for less?

IMO a person does need component English. I work with someone whose partner only has functional English and she is always ringing up people on their behalf or explaining things to them. What would they do if she was not around to explain these things to them? Most likely they would have signed a lease agreement not understanding what they were liable for.

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Originally Posted by FutureCitizen View Post
Many people would rather make money than study!
But wouldn't they rather learn English and get a great job and be able to buy a house? The reality is that Australian house prices are expensive and a household on an entry level wage for 1 person only will probably never be able to own a house.


Last edited by Mish; 06-25-2017 at 02:38 PM.

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  #477 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2017, 03:31 PM
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I have an issue with the English language requirement. And it's nothing personal for me my husband will pass the test if he needs too.

For a start ones contribution to Australia shouldn't be measured on their language ability.

Second this sort of requirement mostly penalises women who due to working in the home have less opportunity to master English.

Third it also penalises refugees and especially female refugees who may not even be literate in their first language.

Fourth the IELTS is less about testing English capabilities and more about ones ability to master the art of the exam. People with limited or no formal education really struggle with IELTS this is well documented.

Finally many people that come to Australia are actually multilingual. English is not just the second but third or fourth language.

Australia has become a rich a prosperous nation due to its ability to embrace multiculturalism and celebrate the diversity of culture, language, religion and thought that brings. The current rejection of multiculturalism is simply a political stunt intended to polarise the community and pander to popularist opinion while deflecting from the real issues that the government does not what to address like education, health, housing, equality and the environment.

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  #478 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2017, 03:53 PM
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I agree somewhat al_ghazal. My issue/concern is if people can't speak English or if it is very limited what happens if there is noone else around and something happens to them and they can't tell the doctor or nurse what they are feeling or allergic to? If they have children how do they communicate with the teacher? I am sure if the child is in trouble they are not going to translate correctly to the parent.

It is in everyones best interest to be able to speak English.

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  #479 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2017, 04:19 PM
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How about we force all bus drivers, retailers, waiters, fast food workers, construction workers and any employee who works in a job that does not require "competent" English to study academic English and learn how to do a 2k words essay?

" functional English and she is always ringing up people on their behalf or explaining things to them. What would they do if she was not around to explain these things to them? Most likely they would have signed a lease agreement not understanding what they were liable for."

You're describing a person who would not even score 3.5 at IELTS....
I have done the IELTS in 2015 and I scored 5.5 ( don't care if you are going to judge me or not) as I did speak fluent English at the time however my spelling skills needed some improvement and I had no idea on how to structure an essay or a long answer response.


Why am I even worried my family and I got our approval letters for Australian citizenship in April and May respectively.

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Last edited by FutureCitizen; 06-25-2017 at 04:24 PM. Reason: Just adding the last bit

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Old 06-25-2017, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by FutureCitizen View Post
How about we force all bus drivers, retailers, waiters, fast food workers, construction workers and any employee who works in a job that does not require "competent" English to study academic English and learn how to do a 2k words essay?
No one should be forced to study Academic English, that's only for University entry, not immigration or citizenship.

And the IELTS essays are only 150 or 250 words anyway. Exaggeration does not help.

Sufficient English to fit in with general communication with people is about right.
New migrants are understood to have a lower capability, but citizens in many countries seem to be expected to be able to speak their national language reasonably well.

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