Boat People - Will they affect our visa processing both on / offshore ?? - Page 11

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Boat People - Will they affect our visa processing both on / offshore ?? - Page 11


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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2013, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Adventuress View Post
I'm sorry, how is it that these people are supposed to get valid visas to get on a plane, if they can't tick all the boxes in a long list to allow them to immigrate? It is legal to arrive in Australia by air or by sea without a visa for the purposes to seek asylum, but come on, I'm sure that we all here - on an immigration forum - know that it's unlikely that any airline will allow anybody to board a plane to Australia without a visa, because then they will charged for the costs of deporting that person! Going through the proper "procedures" to be granted asylum takes months upon months of waiting, and time is something that these people do not have. Ok, so if they stay and wait they won't be taking the risk of drowning from the boats, but they'll probably be killed where they are by the people they're fleeing. But that's ok, isn't it, because we don't have to see that on television or even think about it. So, problem solved!

It is telling that the most vocal people about "stopping the boats" are those who have never had to experience a life without free speech, or free movement, or all the golden opportunities to be successful in life based on talent and potential, rather than money or connections.

I really don't think I'm missing the point here when people are talking about "broken third world countries", and the fact that displaced people have to be settled somewhere, but "why does it have to be Australia?" This was once known as the land of opportunity, "for those who've come across the seas, we've boundless plains to share". Now it's just a nation of immigrants who have had the fortunate to make their lives here, scrambling over each other to slam the door on anyone else who might hope to do the same. And this has never been just about asylum seekers. Get over yourselves. You're not special just because you're Australian. If you were born here, Australia didn't pluck you out of a pile for your special qualities. You just won the lottery of life.
I will agree with you that the process of getting a visa is too difficult - that is one thing that we have discussed needs to change in order for the boats to stop. I understand Rudd's policy will see changes to the visa's which is very very positive. In fact as I just clicked on the immi website to review a standard visa application for a refugee - I see the changes have already started. I don't care if these people are settled in Australia, we are a country made up of resettled nations afterall. It just makes me sick to my stomach that people smuggling is so rife and seems to be so tolerated?

I won't apologise for being lucky enough to be Australian either. It doesn't make me uneducated or unsympathetic to world issues just becuase I haven't faced the same hardships.

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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2013, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kmarees1986 View Post
And News.com.au - a generic internet based news site is all genuine fact checked information? Not sure I would trust everything I read on this site! Where are their resources to their facts in the article? Apart from a couple of pictures being referenced none of the other information appears to have come from anywhere at all?



Great! SBS does carry some more credibility when it comes to reporting facts, however...The SBS article shows recent figures of people seeking asylum in Australia due to conflict in their country - but the Brisbane times article you posted actually reports that there is no way they could tell really who are genuine asylum seekers as 20,000 odd refugees that have arrived since August 2012 haven't been processed...so do SBS have some inside information that the government committees and institutions set up to monitor and process refugees - don't?



I am not going to argue about the politics of who stated what, when and why and nor am I going to trawell the internet for links to articles with further mis-information which are clearly nothing more than opinion peices...I have heard both that it is true and that it is untrue. My point for my original comment to you was basically that it is not black and white and we really just don't have all the correct information.

Regardless, I am pro asylum, anti people smuggling!
I agree regarding the credibility of news.com.au, but anyway, away with the "opinion pieces," here's the official DIAC statistics, straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publica...arter-2013.pdf


The discrepancy you mentioned may be explained in the 'Overview' section on page 4:

Quote:
'For this reason, the grant rates set out in the tables are not recognition rates since the actual determination that a person is a refugee or is owed protection may have occurred during an earlier period. The effect of this is strongest for the irregular maritime arrival (IMA) caseload which has a more uneven profile compared with the non-IMA caseload, which means the effects of delays in health, security or character checks are exacerbated.'

As for Malaysia and Indonesia, I don't think you or I have any idea to state how the living conditions would be for an asylum seeker. However, if you were indeed an asylum seeker, would you take your family to nations that aren't even signatories of the UN Refugee Convention and Protocol? Or would you take the (undoubted, perhaps unknown) risk to get them to Australia, a nation with a long and strong history of accepting migrants escaping persecution?


Anyway, I agree with you, not everything is black and white. I am sure that, at the end of the day, our hearts are in the right place, and we want the best resolution for everyone involved. We may just have different methods for doing so.

Reasoned and rational discussion like this is good.

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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2013, 02:15 PM
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Please do not miss understand me as I have no issue with genuine asylum seekers (more so with people smugglers)

If they came to Australia on boat or apply the preferred way (offshore) wouldn't they need to fulfill the same criteria for the humanitarian visa and there fore have the same chances as before even though they are not able to arrive by boat anymore? I think it great that they have will be giving out more humanitarian visas and this way it seems we will be able to ensure they go to the truly desperate people (not people who may be fooled by people smugglers). More than anything this measure seems as though it will stop people smuggling and ensure more people in need are indeed granted visas.

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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2013, 02:17 PM
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As for Malaysia and Indonesia, I don't think you or I have any idea to state how the living conditions would be for an asylum seeker. However, if you were indeed an asylum seeker, would you take your family to nations that aren't even signatories of the UN Refugee Convention and Protocol? Or would you take the (undoubted, perhaps unknown) risk to get them to Australia, a nation with a long and strong history of accepting migrants escaping persecution?
Point taken, I missed that this was your point in your first comment.

Quote:
Reasoned and rational discussion like this is good.
Agreed

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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2013, 02:25 PM
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Nothing wrong with asylum seekers coming to Australia, but the problem is people smugglers.

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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2013, 02:34 PM
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.......and burning down the facilities, causing around 60 million dollars worth of damage, attacking security and running off, shows how much respect some of these so called refugees have for Australia that offers them sanctuary...

This is the behavior that pisses most aussies off....

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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2013, 01:57 AM
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Apart from the USA and Canada what other country's have accepted so many new citizens.
As strange as it may seem - China has accepted close to 2 million Vietnamese.


  #108 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2013, 02:07 AM
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As strange as it may seem - China has accepted close to 2 million Vietnamese.
China also send North Koreans back and then they go into "re education Camps"

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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2013, 04:43 AM
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I believe that Germany has accepted approx 350,000 refugees as asylum seekers making them 3rd in the overall numbers ranking but this does not mean that they are permanent residents just that they can live and work there, this is the difference, the figures which make Aus look very good is the number which are permanently resettled here with citizenship, which puts Aus at about 3rd in the rankings for perm resettlement but about 25th in terms of total number accepted for asylum in the wider population.


  #110 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2013, 12:00 PM
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Australia cannot be the rich , developed 1st world country that it is right now if it doesnt do anything to control the flow of boats (with possibly genuine refugees and economic migrants) which have been surely increasing and there's really no doubt in that is there !?

The Economic migrants have spoiled it for refugees now. And in this age of 2013 everyone knows the world map and everyone is smarter than they were maybe 50 years back.
Everyones taking smart decisions and Australia cannot act dumb. Australia has to be competitive and decisions such as the refugee resettlement plans has to be made in the interests of the Australians.

Obviously no one would sit back knowing that they have ingenuine guests coming into their party and eating all their food and staying back ---it will be as if you do not have any control of your home.!

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Last edited by rayromano; 07-22-2013 at 12:04 PM.

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