Applying for 309 with no intent to immigrate

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Applying for 309 with no intent to immigrate


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2018, 12:26 AM
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Applying for 309 with no intent to immigrate

Hey folks.

I am an American citizen and my partner is a dual citizen (US/Australia). We met in Melbourne and are getting married soon in New Zealand.

We are moving back to the US soon and while we have no desire to really settle down in Australia at the moment, it's always nice to have the option open.

Our kids will hopefully have both US and Australian passports.

So given that, is it possible for us me to apply for a PR (309/100) and hold on to it, even if I do not really plan on settling down here? Maybe even apply for citizenship at some stage (seeing as how Home Affairs website says time spent outside Australia as a permanent resident with your Australian citizen spouse may be treated as time spent in Australia)?

We will keep our bank accounts and maybe invest in a property or two over the years. And we will definitely visit since we have friends here.

Appreciate any thoughts/pointers from others who have gone through the process without any solid intention of migrating here permanently. Money is no object and we are perfectly happy settling down in the US so we aren't in any rush either. But just wondering about going through the process if it's ultimately futile.

Thank you.


Last edited by BrownWanderer; 10-24-2018 at 12:28 AM.

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Old 10-24-2018, 03:25 AM
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I don't know specifically about 309 visas, and can't find information about this situation on the internet. At a glance, seems a bit strange to go through such a process 'just in case' you want to live here. The visa isn't really designed for that. Anyway, I think a migration agent should know better about this process, but tbh think about it. There are people on the list waiting years to get through the system, people for whom it is their only way to live happily together. Do you really want to add your application to the system?

I'm sure you will be able to get the appropriate visa entitled to you at the time you want to travel to Australia, but not sure if 309 is the right option for what you want.

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Last edited by ZoeKaur; 10-26-2018 at 02:12 AM.

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Old 10-24-2018, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoeKaur View Post
Also, I don't think you can get Australian citizenship while keeping your US citizenship because Australia doesn't allow dual citizenship .
Yes it does.

To the OP: thereís little point in applying if you donít intend to use the visa. If you have a change of heart, apply for the partner visa when you are ready to move.

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2018, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoeKaur View Post
Also, I don't think you can get Australian citizenship while keeping your US citizenship because Australia doesn't allow dual citizenship .
Both Australia and the U.S. allow multiple citizenships. I say "multiple" and not "dual" because the former is more accurate.

I have a child with three citizenships.

To the OP, the partner visa process is expensive. I personally wouldn't take the risk in applying with no intention to migrate as it doesn't seem to me that Australia like a to hand out PR to people who don't want to live here. Especially in the case of partner visas where they are intended to be used to live with your partner in Australia.

I agree with Paul. Best to wait until you decide if you want to live here before going for a partner visa.


Last edited by Skybluebrewer; 10-24-2018 at 03:58 AM.

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Old 10-24-2018, 12:52 PM
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Thank you all so much for your helpful feedback. Yes, the US does indeed allow dual citizenship because my partner has both Australian and American passports.

If we ever move to Australia to spend a few years here, I'd like to be able to not have to worry about going through the process at that time (having read the horror stories). Just wondering if there's an option to front load that.

The other reason I'm considering applying for it is also because I'd like to be able to invest in Australia (buy property, invest in the market, invest in startups etc). Plus it would give our kids the opportunity to have capital and a support system already in the country (homes, investment accounts etc).

I also recognize that others apply for very different reasons, and I'm extremely sympathetic to that. And in the grand scheme of things, the fees aren't particularly significant to me. Once again, fully recognize that's not the case for everyone.

I guess my question is more along the lines of whether it is technically possible to apply for a PR and get one if you're not actively living here. I'm not too concerned about proving ties to Australia -- happy to invest and buy property etc. Would they be willing to hand it to someone who's happy to invest in the country and keep ties?

Thank you again for all your insights.


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Old 10-24-2018, 02:57 PM
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Im under the impression you should only be applying if you are genuine about making a life here and with what you have written above that doesn't really reflect the scenario or support your visa application. Surely the government would not look kindly on completing it 'just in case' and it also clogs the system and approvals process for those who are genuinely trying to be with their family and loved ones

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Old 10-24-2018, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownWanderer View Post
If we ever move to Australia to spend a few years here, I'd like to be able to not have to worry about going through the process at that time (having read the horror stories). Just wondering if there's an option to front load that.

The other reason I'm considering applying for it is also because I'd like to be able to invest in Australia (buy property, invest in the market, invest in startups etc).

[...]

I guess my question is more along the lines of whether it is technically possible to apply for a PR and get one if you're not actively living here. I'm not too concerned about proving ties to Australia -- happy to invest and buy property etc. Would they be willing to hand it to someone who's happy to invest in the country and keep ties?
I am probably in a not too disimilar situation, except that I have been considering this exact same question for about 10 years now. During that time the cost of the visa and duration to get it has increased significantly, which has been the downside of not applying earlier. A few thoughts to consider given your questions:

1) The main reason not to apply that I am aware of is that though your PR does not expire, the ability to travel to Australia is only valid 5 years. After that you need an RRV to travel to Australia which will need to demonstrate ties. If you have never made any effort to actually move it may be hard to prove that. This is the only reason I have not applied yet.
2) Another complication is that the process does require you to answer questions on your intent to move to and settle in Australia, which would be hard to do.
3) You don't need PR to invest in Australia (eg in property), especially if you have an Australian spouse. You need certain waivers to buy property, but my understanding is that that's not too hard to get. Similarly, you can invest in stocks through most brokers without a certain residency status. Not sure about start-ups.
4) Finally, a big one is that doing the application is quite a lot of effort, gathering all the necessary information and proof. So money might not be an blocker but maybe time is?

Having said all that, if you are willing to spend the money and time, and take the risk on the 5 year validity of the travel facility I don't see a lot of downside.

A consult with an RMA would probably be valuable to really understand the downsides & risks.

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Old 10-24-2018, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoeKaur View Post
There are people on the list waiting years to get through the system, people for whom it is their only way to live happily together. Do you really want to add your application to the system?
I have to second this, considering that I'm waiting in America for my visa to be granted and have been separated from my husband for a year and a half now due to the clogged up immigration system. I can't imagine that people who really don't need this visa would contribute to creating even more of a delay for people who do....
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:52 PM
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Yes it does..
The Murdoch amendments.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2018, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsmorrow28 View Post
Im under the impression you should only be applying if you are genuine about making a life here and with what you have written above that doesn't really reflect the scenario or support your visa application. Surely the government would not look kindly on completing it 'just in case' and it also clogs the system and approvals process for those who are genuinely trying to be with their family and loved ones
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbound3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoeKaur View Post
There are people on the list waiting years to get through the system, people for whom it is their only way to live happily together. Do you really want to add your application to the system?
I have to second this, considering that I'm waiting in America for my visa to be granted and have been separated from my husband for a year and a half now due to the clogged up immigration system. I can't imagine that people who really don't need this visa would contribute to creating even more of a delay for people who do....
I understand the difficulties. Trust me, I do. My partner and I have spent the past year between her in Australia and me in South Africa and it's been really quite painful. Long distance isn't easy at all.

However, there is no quota of these visas. Which means I'm not taking it away from someone. At worst, I'm just one more application, of the hundreds of thousands.

I wouldn't tell them that it's just in case, of course.


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