300 or 820 application for engaged Norwegian? - Page 2

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300 or 820 application for engaged Norwegian? - Page 2


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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2019, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirik View Post
Hi Nick,
we we have been in a long distance relationship, but as mentioned spent significantly time together (see initial post). Also have extensive social media and WhatsApp logs and various pictures and receipts for joint traveling. If we register in NSW as de-factor partners in October, and update application in April when we are married (I assume the 801 has not been touched by that time), should this be a strong enough case to qualify for the 801?
Two thoughts:
1) You need a lot more evidence to qualify as a de-facto partner than social media and time together, especially if not living together. There are 4 categories that you need to provide evidence for, and demonstrate you have a mutual commitment to the exclusion of all others.
2) The criteria apply at the moment of filing the application, irrespective of when they actually look at it. So any updates in April will (likely) not be relevant if you lodge (much) before that.

From your current posts its hard to judge how much good evidence you could really provide, and it sounds like you might benefit from a proper consultation with an Registered Migration Agent. But it seems the PMV 300 might be a more plausible route.


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Old 08-22-2019, 11:45 PM
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I agree with the previous poster's assessment.

Just to clarify, while you are applying for both the 820 and 801 at the same time, it is the temporary visa (820) that will be assessed initially.

You must meet the relationship requirements at the time of application and all relevant evidence should relate to the period up to lodgement date.

Anything generated afterwards is evidence of an ongoing relationship, but not evidence of the relationship at time of lodgement.

The online working thing is a bit of a grey area and I am loathe to advise on it.

I suggest you draw up a list of pros and cons of both options and get someone to cast a professional eye over it. It is such an involved and emotional process, that it can be beneficial for an outsider to have an impartial look at it. Sometimes rational judgement can be clouded by wishful thinking.

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Old 08-25-2019, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taco View Post
Two thoughts:
1) You need a lot more evidence to qualify as a de-facto partner than social media and time together, especially if not living together. There are 4 categories that you need to provide evidence for, and demonstrate you have a mutual commitment to the exclusion of all others.
2) The criteria apply at the moment of filing the application, irrespective of when they actually look at it. So any updates in April will (likely) not be relevant if you lodge (much) before that.

From your current posts its hard to judge how much good evidence you could really provide, and it sounds like you might benefit from a proper consultation with an Registered Migration Agent. But it seems the PMV 300 might be a more plausible route.

Hi,

I have read that if you do get married whilst the 300 is being processed, it is automatically transferred to a 820?
I am a bit surprised that developments in the relationship are not considered, seeing the processing time is so long.

And you are right, the 300 seems to be the best route - just very frustrating that the visibility on processing is so bad. A granting after 4 and 14 months does really impact your life...


Last edited by Eirik; 08-25-2019 at 07:21 PM.

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Old 08-25-2019, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirik View Post
Hi,

I have read that if you do get married whilst the 300 is being processed, it is automatically transferred to a 820?
I am a bit surprised that developments in the relationship are not considered, seeing the processing time is so long.

And you are right, the 300 seems to be the best route - just very frustrating that the visibility on processing is so bad. A granting after 4 and 14 months does really impact your life...
No, that is not correct. You would be considered for the offshore sc. 309/100 visa instead. Developments in the relationship are considered, but only up to the time of lodgement. On the day you apply you must meet the relationship requirements. Any developments after lodgement can be seen as evidence that the relationship is ongoing, but not that the relationship existed at time of lodgement.

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Old 09-02-2019, 11:54 PM
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From a recent refusal, not a case of mine.

Subclause 300.221
Subclause 300.221 of Schedule 2 of the Regulations requires the applicant to continue to satisfy the criteria in clause 300.216 at the time of decision.
The definition of spouse is given in section 5F of the Act. For the purpose of a subclass 300 (Prospective Marriage) visa, the applicant and sponsor must demonstrate that they genuinely intend to live together as spouses.
In summary, section 5F of the Act requires the applicant and sponsor to be married to each other under a marriage that is valid for the purposes of the Act. It also prescribes that they must have a mutual commitment to a shared life to the exclusion of all others, a genuine and continuing relationship, and live together or not live separately and apart on a permanent basis.
To determine if the applicant intends to meet the definition of spouse in section 5F of the Act, I must assess the remaining paragraphs of subsection 5F(2) of the Act.
To assess the remaining subclauses of subsection 5F(2), namely paragraphs 5F(2)(b), (c) and (d), I must, by law, consider all the circumstances of the relationship, including the following matters, which are prescribed in regulation 1.15A:
(a) the financial aspects of the relationship;
(b) the nature of the household;
(c) the social aspects of the relationship; and
(d) the nature of the persons' commitment to each other.
. The financial aspects of the relationship
I have considered the financial aspects of the relationship, including any joint ownership
of real estate or other major assets, any joint liabilities, the extent of any pooling of financial resources, especially in relation to major financial commitments, whether either applicant or sponsor owes any legal obligations in respect of the other and the basis of any sharing of day-to-day household expenses.
The applicant has provided evidence of a joint account with the sponsor held with ANZ Bank. Bank statements have been provided covering a period from 17 December 2016 to
28 June 2018. Although there are internal transfers into the account from other unspecified ANZ accounts and the deduction of account fees there is no evidence of the account being actively used by the couple for regular day to day activities.
In his relationship statement the applicant stated that the joint account was set up to share expenses and pay rent. However this is not reflected in the activity on the account. During interviews conducted with both the sponsor and applicant by this department on 12 June 2019 and 13 June 2019 respectively the sponsor and applicant both admitted that no daily payments were made from the account and gave varying reasons for its inception. The applicant said the account was opened so the couple could save and the sponsor said it was opened because they thought it would help the application.
Given the discrepancies and lack of any activity on the joint account I have concerns that it was only opened as a way to strengthen this application and I cannot place much weight on it as evidence of the couple’s financial ties to each other.
note evidence of three money transfers receipts have been provided. Two from 17 April 2017 and 23 July 2017 are from the sponsor to the applicant and one from 12 October 2018 is from the applicant to the sponsor. The applicant and sponsor again gave varying reasons for the money transfers with the sponsor saying that she thought it would help the application and that she wanted to save money and the applicant saying it was them wanting to financially support each other.
I note no other evidence of any joint legal financial obligations owed to each other such as a Will or an employer’s superannuation fund has been provided.
Overall, I find that there is little information, which would suggest that the financial aspects of the relationship are indicative of the applicant and sponsor being in a genuine and continuing relationship. I therefore find this aspect not met
The nature of the household
I have considered the nature of the household, including any joint responsibility for the care and support of children, living arrangements and any sharing of the responsibility for housework.
The couple have claimed to have co-habitated in Australia from 04 January 2017 until the applicant left Australia on 08 November 2017. I have some evidence of co-habitation by way of joint utility bills and joint bank account statements. I have placed some weight on these but the evidence does not necessarily establish co-habitation as there may not have been any independent checking of the living arrangements by the various agencies. Correspondence sent to the same address merely indicate that the applicant and sponsor informed such agencies that they live at the same address.
Even if I accept that the applicant and sponsor co-habitated in the time claimed there is still not enough evidence before me that they formed a joint household in that time. I have formed the view that if the applicant and sponsor lived together they did so for the purpose of this visa application only.
I note the applicant and sponsor have both stated in the application that the applicant has a very close relationship with the sponsors’ children in particular her daughterxxxx. Although I note there are photographs and evidence of the applicant being involved in the lives of the sponsor’s children I note the sponsor’s ex-husband has shared custody and there is no evidence of any legal order giving the applicant any share in the care and responsibility of the children. The applicant has been out of Australia since 8 November 2017 and there is no evidence that the children have suffered any detriment from his absence.
Overall I am therefore not satisfied that this aspect has been met.
and so on ....

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Last edited by wrussell; 09-03-2019 at 12:00 AM.

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Old 09-03-2019, 07:02 PM
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Hi Russell,

Thank you for sharing this. However, it did leave me a bit confused. I was under the impression that a 300 Visa was intended so that the applicant could move to Australia for the purpose of marrying and starting a life together.

As we have had a long-distance relationship, we do not really have any joint financial activity, real state etc (but do plan to live together and buy a home together once I am there). As stated earlier in the thread, we have been together for 18 months and been physically together for 9 of those months (plane tickets for documentation). Would the lack of joint financial activity disqualify us? It seems a bit strange, as we have not really had the chance to live (and work) in the same country so far - that is the purpose of the visa application...

Any new comments clarifying this would be much appreciated.

- Eirik


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Old 09-03-2019, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
I was under the impression that a 300 Visa was intended so that the applicant could move to Australia for the purpose of marrying and starting a life together.
It was!

The couple in the refused 300 have the choice of lodging an AAT review application, which if they win, could drag on for 3 years before a visa grant, or they could pay again and lodge a 309 for which the reasons for the current refusal would come into play.

There are children involved. What would you do? I am still working on it, pro bono.

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Last edited by wrussell; 09-03-2019 at 08:45 PM. Reason: typo

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Old 09-03-2019, 08:46 PM
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With sc. 300 applications, case officers still use the 4 relationship pillars to determine that the relationship is genuine, absurd as it may sound. So they must be addressed in some way. It can be a problem at some overseas posts, but generally it can be dealt with quite easily. Itís just something to be aware of.

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Old 09-03-2019, 11:03 PM
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With sc. 300 applications, case officers still use the 4 relationship pillars to determine that the relationship is genuine, absurd as it may sound
When they do this, they are applying policy, not the regulations, which trump policy.
With all that I have been warning people for years that THEY are increasingly applying to prospective marriage applications the regulations that apply to spouse applications.

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Old 09-03-2019, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrussell View Post
During interviews <...>The applicant said the account was opened so the couple could save and the sponsor said it was opened because they thought it would help the application.
Given the discrepancies <...> I cannot place much weight on it as evidence of the coupleís financial ties to each other.

The applicant and sponsor again gave varying reasons for the money transfers with the sponsor saying that she thought it would help the application and that she wanted to save money and the applicant saying it was them wanting to financially support each other. .
I would guess that each one giving different answers might have given cause for a rejection.

With fewer grants available now, I would also guess that they will look for more reasons to reject, and give the available grants to straightforward applications.

This might actually end up encouraging some applicants to use a Migration agent, to avoid that case you mention, which I assume was not submitted by an agent.


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