can apply visa 175 and 457 at the same time?

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can apply visa 175 and 457 at the same time?

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Old 05-03-2010, 01:51 PM
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Question can apply visa 175 and 457 at the same time?

Hi dear friends,

I am seeking advice for visa issue. Currently I am working as a registered nurse in Singapore. Already registered in NSW nursing board and received determination letter from ANMC.

Plan to apply PR including parents as sub-applicants. As the only child of my dad and mum, I have to be responsible and take care of them when they become old now. However the requirement to add dependent in PR application is the person must be financially depending on the main applicant. In fact my parents could support themselves but they dont have other children and relatives to rely on and they emotionally depend on me. They may also need me in some daily help like shopping and some repair work. Life without child around also diminish their quality of life. May I know anyone ever include parents in PR application and how is the process like? And May I know how's the risk of rejection i am facing?

The reason I would like to add my parents in my au PR application, is there are not many options to help to bring parents with me asap. Nowday parents permanent visa has to wait for more than 10 yrs. I am really not sure whether they can live that long to wait for visa. I will be very guilty if i never do my part to honor & take care of them when they are still a life. Second option is contributory parent visa, which is very expensive. I will only consider it if i really have no way in the end.

To avoid risk of rejection and delay of PR, I am going to apply Visa 457 to enter Sydney first. The question is whether i can apply Visa 457 and 175 at the same time? i remember i saw some kind of statement in website, "whatever visa granted later will be considered valid. " I assume 457 should be given in 2 months time, then i can wait for 175 in Sydney. At the time of granting, i have to be offshore. However if 175 rejected because they could not approve my parents as sub-applicant, I still can continue to stay in au without any problems.

If my 457 approved in near future and I already work in Sydney, does my employment onshore will help in the approval for my 175 including my parents as dependent?

thanks for taking time reading my message. Appreciate for any advice and suggestion or sharing of personal experience.

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Old 05-04-2010, 01:54 PM
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Hi Paulina and good to see you've done some reading up already.

Essentially, yes, you can apply for the 457 while also doing a 175 and though for nursing, you should have a 175 processed reasonably promptly another possible way of PR if you find an eligible and agreeable employer would be the ENS, a fee free approach for the offshore version if you have a 175 submitted - Employer Nomination Scheme (Subclass 121/856)

Re your parents, I'm not an agent and do not know of any situations where people have had them approved as dependants and I suspect Immi will be quite firm on requirements to be met, something you possibly also suspect and hence the approach you are looking at re the 175/457.
Certainly, that they are independent financially as you mention makes them non-dependent in the total sense.

There is another possibility you may want to look at re the parents visa, a side door approach if you like, the basis for that being an onshore parents application once you have PR.
. Your parents arrive in Australia on an ETA - ETA (Visitor) (Subclass 976)
. With an onshore parents application, it may still take 8-10 years to get but they could be granted a bridging visa until that occurs and thus be able to stay in Australia.

There are some issues to be considered, such as they not being eligible for medicare and other social services but many Australians also take out private medical insurance to give themselves greater coverage, perhaps something like $2000/Y cost.

Also, in taking such a path, the one certainty with Immi is that not everything may always go to plan, but I'd reckon there'll be more chance of your parents staying in Australia that way than attempting to prove dependancy.

There's more detail in a report on a woman named Mary whose parents did the above from the UK to Adelaide though it'll not matter where in Australia it applies to.

At present, this visa takes about 15 years (sic) to be processed because only 300 are available each year and there are about 5,000 Aged Parent applicants sitting in Australia on Bridging Visas waiting for them. However, on 1st July 2008 this will be doubled to 600 a year, halving the waiting time.

Compared to the cost of a Contributory Parent or Contributory Aged Parent visa, the cost of an Aged Parent visa is trivial:

Parent Visa Charges

Additionally the Assurance of Support required for it only lasts for two years instead of 10, and the Bond is $7,000 for a couple instead of $14,000.

An application for an AP visa is automatically also an application for a Bridging Visa A:

Two aspects of Bridging Visas for Parents worried me initially, though not any more.

The first concern is that Form 1024i states that an applicant for a Parent visa will not be entitled to Medicare. Fed up with not knowing whether the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between Oz and the UK would reverse the assertion in Form 1024i, I e-mailed both Medicare and DIAC about this last week.

Both of them have confirmed to me that as a matter of Policy, a British Parent is indeed covered by the UK/Oz RHCA whilst on a Bridging Visa to the same extent as if s/he were on a tourist visa instead. The RHCA is available regardless of one's age:

Unless a doctor decides that the propsed treatment is "necessary" Medicare will not pay for any of it. Ambulance insurance is required whatever happens.

My other concern is that a Bridging Visa A does not entitle the Parent to return to Oz if s/he goes abroad for any reason. For that, a Bridging Visa B is needed instead and it must be obtained before the Parent leaves Oz. According to Form 1024i, "substantial reasons" are needed before a Bridging Visa B would be forthcoming.

According to me, a desire for a family holiday offshore is not a substantial reason, but according to DIAC in Adelaide it is. They say their Policy is that it is not the Aged Parent's fault that AP visas take some years to process. Therefore they are happy to grant a Bridging Visa B and say that this will enable the Parent to spend up to 90 days a year outside Australia if wished. They are not interested in why the Parent might wish to spend time outside Oz. They merely stress that the period outside Oz must not exceed 90 days a year.

As luck would have it, Mary's family happened to meet another British couple recently who are in their early 70s. The other couple have applied for Aged Parent visas and are living in Adelaide on Bridging Visas. (Until they were encountered, I was urging caution unless and until somebody could be found locally who is actually in this very situation. I tried to find someone via a thread on here a couple of months ago but drew a blank.)

The other couple have decided on private medical insurance for themselves so they are not bothered about the Medicare cover available to them.

The other couple have property in South Africa and a child in the UK. Every year, they spend 90 days outside Australia. They go to South Africa, then come to the UK to visit their other child, then back to Adelaide. It suits them to be outside Oz for the three months of winter in Oz so this is what they do.

Mary's Dad is thorough. Hearing all this from the other couple, he went back to DIAC in Adelaide to ask why anybody would pay for a CPV if DIAC are as liberal as described above? He was told that the reason why Parents are willing to pay for CPVs is because they want fast processing and certainty. Some Parents consider that these considerations are worth 40K GBP. Other Parents consider that hanging on to their capital is a more compelling idea!

Aged Parent visas involve 2 sets of Meds and Police checks. The first set are done within about a year of the visa application being made. The second set are required some years later when the Parent reaches the head of the Queue.

Asked what would happen if Mary's Dad or his wife should fail the second meds, DIAC assured him that there would be no question of them being kicked out of Australia.

Which is true. If one of the Parents fails the second meds, the drill is to Appeal to the Migration Review Tribunal and insist that the Review Medical Officer re-assesses the meds from scratch. New or additional medical info can be supplied to the RMOC and it will be considered. THe reported MRT cases reveal that the RMOC disagrees with the original MOC surprisingly often.

If the RMOC advises that the medical criteria for migration are met, the MRT must remit the application back to DIAC with an Order that the medical criteria are met. In practice there will be no other issues because the 2nd meds will not be requested if anything else about the application is faulty.

If the RMOC agrees with the opinion of the original MOC then the MRT must affirm DIAC's original visa refusal and dismiss the appeal. Currently the fixed fee to apply to the MRT is $1400 and approx another $600 to involve the RMOC. If the appeal is successful, the money is refunded. If the appeal is unsuccessful, $2000 is the maximum spent assuming that the family tackle the appeal without professional help - which they can do if they try.
A couple of further things you may want to consider re you/your parents potential permanent location.
. Sydney is Australias. largest, most congested and expensive city to live in and though it has a great harbour and some lovely coastal beaches, only the very wealthy can afford to live close to harbour and/or beaches.
Australia also has more crime than Singapore and Sydney is also tops in that.

. You may want to give thought to regional city locations along the east coast where lifestyle, pollution, real estate and living costs, commuting travel time and just about anything you might want to think of are going to be far better than in Sydney.

. Queensland for instance will have weather much closer to what your parents are accustomed to in Singapore though not with year round humidity but at least not too cold in winters [ important to older people for comfort ].

And if your parents wanted to make an earlier extended trip while you were still on a 457, applying for a 12 month visa may allow them up to nearly 2 years with just one trip out and back in for 12 month tourist visas can be granted with a latest enter by date 12 months from grant and valid for 12 months from last entry and so if they went to Australia straight away and left and returned just before latest enter by date they then get two 12 month periods.

A bit for you to read/absorb and hope that helps.

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Old 05-12-2010, 03:19 PM
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Thank you Wanderer for your detailed information and reply. I think you are absolutely right, the DIAC is very straight with their criteria. So to apply 175 with adding my parents is probably not the right choice. Sadly from 7th May DIAC has stopped processing 175 and 176 and some of 475 and the new criteria will only come out end of June. Ironically just before I wanted to put up application the door was shut. So only can depend on 457 if i can find a job offshore.

Regarding my parents they are China citizen so ETA does not work for them, so i can only apply 12 months visa for them and see how later.

Thanks again for your time and help in my question.

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Old 05-13-2010, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by paulina View Post
Thank you Wanderer for your detailed information and reply. I think you are absolutely right, the DIAC is very straight with their criteria. So to apply 175 with adding my parents is probably not the right choice. Sadly from 7th May DIAC has stopped processing 175 and 176 and some of 475 and the new criteria will only come out end of June. Ironically just before I wanted to put up application the door was shut. So only can depend on 457 if i can find a job offshore.

Regarding my parents they are China citizen so ETA does not work for them, so i can only apply 12 months visa for them and see how later.

Thanks again for your time and help in my question.
Hi Paulina,
Yes, the DIAC suspension is largely because of changes being made to the applications priority system and it would seem that many applications have come in, something of a usual trait in this situation and rather than just get more and more applications in that could then see the new approach re regulations getting bogged down, suspending is probably best.

Nursing has always been a high in demand profession in Australia and many do use the 457 visa system as a first step, there also being many nursing employment agencies and there are some private hospital and medical clinic organisations with multiple facilities who often advertise direct.
But a google on Australian Nursing Employment or something like that will find listings and it'll not hurt to contact several agencies to see what they have listed.

Another advantage of the 457 visa program is that you also only need to register with a state nursing council and that is likely a quicker process than the national body registration, a bit cheaper too I expect.

Applications for the 175/176 will be open again before too long and you will have the option of putting one independently or likely as part of a State Migration Plan which will be the new way of prioritising in the absence of the CSL.

Re your parents, is there any possibility they can apply to take out Singaporean citizenship for that certainly makes entry into Australia to be able to apply for onshore parent visas more feasible.
Found ICA - Introduction to Naturalisation if it helps though the eligibility check site is currently unavailable.

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Old 05-21-2010, 04:04 PM
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Dear Wanderer,

Thanks for your advice. You are right, I hope the offshore PR application process will require less time after their review.

In fact I have contacted one nursing agency appointed by NSW health cluster end of last month. It has very straight policy that the oversea nurse can only apply one job agency at time. Their worries is few agencies would probably put up the same nurse's resume to the same hospital. It causes confusion. However they don't really response to me actively in these 3 weeks. So I will go ahead to apply job from other website as what you suggest

Though I am eligible to register in NSW nursing board, I have to provide further information or documents according to national registration standard if I do not reach Sydney before 30th June. Obviously I cannot be there as i need time to find job and subsequently wait for visa 457 process. It will take at least 3 months or longer.

As it is not possible for my parents to get Singapore citizen and in fact nowdays it is almost no way for parents to get Singapore PR too. So I am thinking about other ways.

I will get my PR first then apply visa for parents. Actually before I sponsor my parents for parents visa, I have to live in Australia for at least 2 years right? For mum and dad, one option is to get contributory visa, but it will give me very heavy burden as i need to pay over 70k for both of them. The other option may be to apply a bridging visa for them at the time while applying for 103. After reading about the bridging visa requirement, i am still quite confused. I think they could apply bridging visa C. If so, they at least can stay with me for a period of time. But not clear how long the visa will last and whether it is easier to grant or not. And can you advice me whether it is workable if i do this way?

Do you have any better solution to settle my dearest parents? hehe, really pray DIAC also do some revision on parents visa too. Parents are the ones sacrifice the most for children and yet not been seriously considered by DIAC. In fact DIAC can just grant one kind of parent PR without medicare access at least promote the right social and family norm and also encourage people to take personal responsibility in caring their aged parents. Of course it is understandable the government is considering about ratio betw the labor market and percentage of age people locally, but don't forget without our parents where are we coming from.... Sometimes the human rights are just so subject. Parents even don't have rights to stay with children when they are so old and have no one to relied on. Think I should write to DIAC or any other relevant gov department regarding this issue. Anyway thanks for reading my ventilation.


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Old 05-22-2010, 01:36 AM
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[QUOTE=paulina;14598]Dear Wanderer,

Hi again Paulina,
I have never been too deeply involved with medical matters and certainly nothing to do with agencies but agencies in all professions have been known to make claims of one sort or another and particularly when it comes to getting most work.

With that in mind, I do have to say that NSW Health Cluster is a most unusual sort of term for an agency to use in regard to grouping of medical services and I'll just allude here to the change that is proposed to take place on the political front [ a bit of general though associated info to read ] , public medical services one way or another always a hot potato politically and you always have the states and federal government trying to put the onus on the other as to who is responsible for improving services.

What has happened in the past is that in any state, health services are administered by a State Health Department, the State government using funds that are distributed by federal government to help run public hospitals whereas the federal government also puts in specific funding for things like doctors training etc., it all being a bit of a mess as to financial responsibilities [ and that is all that the federal government is proposing to change, but only partially and so there'll still be something of a mess - too long a story ] and in NSW you have now your various major Sydney area hospitals, both public and private and they get run independently with a state health department overview of public hospitals management boards with management appointments controlled by the state government.

Out in the country areas, you have various regions that will include a number of different size cities and smaller towns and so a number of different size hospitals, mainly all public as private hospitals like to have a sizable population to base their services on, all the public facilities being under a regional management board and management people likewise appointed by the government.

The new political scene has been developed around the federal government withdrawing funding from the state governments to pay direct to hospital and regional health boards and full details have yet to be worked out, [ policy on the run by a politician trying to maintain popularity ] and managerially it has the makings of what we would call a dogs breakfast, a further mess [ though some dogs are tidier eaters, so no offence meant to them! ]
yourHealth - Home for reference but do not get too bogged down on it.

The other employment area for many doctors and nurses will be the many medical clinics or smaller doctors practices, most of which are of a private nature and patients can claim for the charges against the federal government system called Medicare.

So a long story, but Medical cluster!!!! - does not really exist and so I would just say be wary of what agencies do tell you and how they can perform.
Cluster has been used in an associated medical sense in regard to if you have a particular disease such as cancer and a lot of it occurs in a particular area, it may be referred to as a cluster - if you google NSW health cluster, you'll see exactly what I mean.

As to looking for employment, it should not be too difficult for:
Healthcare and Nursing Jobs in Sydney - Health Staff Recruitment claim to be the preferred provider for NSW.
Their vacancy list covers many areas, both permanent and for shorter term, temporary appointments at times referred to as locums and there are locum agencies about too and to bolster your finances re a parents contributory visa, you may once settled into Australia and have PR so as not to be reliant on an employer sponsor want to start start looking at Locum positions for it can mean good money to be earnt.
Another possibility to top earnings up for a while would be to look at Australia wide positions and what better earnings could be had in more remote mining location.

Help Nursing Agency in Sydney,agency nursing,Help Nurses Agency is another agency more specialising in aged care and the like it seems

Nurse Jobs in Newcastle NSW | lists positions in a specific area, the Hunter region being about 150 km. north of Sydney and
Home - HNEAHS Internet allows you to have a direct look.

In deed, Jobs - NSW Department of Health also lists positions vacant and so you can make direct enquiries and likely proceed with an application if the various boards are sponsoring.

Getting through all the bureaucracy of the public systems can be something of a trial and so a good agency can help but I'd be a bit suspicious of any one agency claiming that you should only apply with one.
A good agency should be able to offer a list of what vacancies there are at any given time much as the government sites do whereas others may just want you to be listed with them to get a commission if they place you.

And then for the private sector, you could consult direct with some employers;
Welcome to Ramsayjobs an apply right now link on their site.

For registration, it seems as though NSW will run a program in parallel with the new National scheme and you may find that if you can register with NSW online that will be sufficient and even eventually give national registration.
Might be worth a look @ Nurses and Midwives Board, New South Wales, Australia - Nurses and Midwives Board if you haven't already as to doing it prior to getting a 457 visa which you'll need to do I suspect.

The two years on PR requirement is what Immi look for to indicate a sponsor is settled in Australia before sponsoring and yes, government regulations can be harsh at times in many respects and certainly the nature in many younger western societies is not so much of most families having parents/grandparents living in close association or even with them as it is in asian and other older countries, a trait well established.
I suppose in one way, many people who immigrate get used to living away from family and so the trend is developed into a trait, a bit sad at that.

The 103 visa is the offshore one and bridging visas do not apply for offshore visas and without your parents being able to get a visa to be in Australia with a No Further Stay condition, they cannot apply for an onshore visa, the 804 which would then see them able to get a bridging visa.

Just thinking out of the square somewhat, if after you were in Australia with PR for two years, they were eligible to apply for a student visa, there possibly be some courses in even just learning english or something else rather simple and only a shorter course and so not too expensive with fees, there could be a possibility of a visa grant without a No Further Stay condition, and then they could apply for the 804 while here and get a bridging visa if it was granted.

Another thing I'll see if I can find some info on is on Aged Parent (Residence) Visa (Subclass 804) there is the reference:
Note: If you have been granted a Tourist (subclass 676) visa by the Minister through ministerial intervention, certain eligibility criteria apply. If you are considering a parent visa option, please contact the Parent Visa Centre in Perth to discuss your specific circumstances.
See: Parent Visa Centre
I do not know what they actually mean but it does seem odd that they mention the tourist visa on a parent visa and so may a slim chance there is another way.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Last edited by Wanderer; 05-22-2010 at 01:42 AM.

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Old 01-02-2011, 02:54 PM
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My son 's PR was approved in July 2010. I understand that parents' PR sponsorship takes 20 years to be approved! I am in no hurry to join my son as yet but would love to join him in say 15 years time. Can I or should I start applying now or do I have to wait 2 years after obtaining his PR?

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Old 01-02-2011, 10:07 PM
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It's an area of visas I've not checked recently but I'd think the two year settlement requirement is not something that would be readily altered.
There is then of course your own eligibility that you need to consider for even once the son's two years is up, there's no point in applying for a visa if it'll be rejected.
Have a squiz at the family visa parents alternatives and you'll be able to check what you are eligible for.

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