De Facto - Unique case

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De Facto - Unique case


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Old 01-19-2011, 03:34 AM
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De Facto - Unique case

Hi All
I have read through most of the De Facto posts and it seems that everyone has more or less the same concerns about providing enough evidence to support their applications. I would like to post my situation simply because I have not seen any similar posts on here, which may make this one unique. Hopefully your response to this post will not only help me but also others with similar situations in the future.

I have met my partner in the United Arab Emirates. She the sponser, I'm from good old South Africa. Long story short, it's illegal for unmarried couples to live together here. (How you can stay in a hotel as an unmarried couple is beyond me) We do however live together like everyone else. The police tend to turn a blind eye towards westerners; however people have been caught in the past. (Raids on shared accommodation of 2008-09 if anyone is familiar with the Dubai) I would however never put her name on the any of the bills or the rental contract simply not to draw attention to the fact that we are unmarried and living together. Maximum penalty is jail if being caught. Having a shared bank account is impossible. You have to be married.

How do we go about providing enough information that we have been living together? Will this be considered a special case?

Thanks


Last edited by n_jonck; 01-20-2011 at 06:56 AM.

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Old 01-21-2011, 02:42 AM
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I know there is some wording in the regulations for partner visas re recognising cultural matters and whilst that can mean arranged marriages that still occur in some countries, I''ve never seen a post about how it can be like for you in the UAE.

If you are living together and you are both working over there, do you have something with the places of employment for most employers like to have your address and then what about bank accounts and with those, you ought to go through your individual bank accounts to highlight any expenditures that are for you both or one buying for the other.
And re address, have you joined any clubs or anything there?

But think about that and have a read of the sticky thread by el kitten in the visas section if you haven't already to get some other ideas and I'll have moved your thread to the visas section.

I would also have Miss Aussie [ and you ] see if she can get an appointment with hopefully an Aussie in the Immi section of the embassy over there and they'll be familiar with the local laws and ought to give you a good idea of what they'll accept.
But do your homework on what I've mentioned so you at least have a list of what you'll have including who has knowledge of your relationship and can make out statements.





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Old 01-22-2011, 09:21 AM
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Hi there, I am an Australian citizen and my husband is a UK citizen and we both live in Dubai too (for the past 3.5 years). I was just about to post myself as we are about to start the spouse visa application process however wanted to see if anyone else from Dubai on here in a similar situation...then I saw your post! We are struggling with similar issues. Probably both similar cases, low risk countries and fairly straightforward however there is the Dubai issue - and I worry only those who have lived here would understand the red tape and why we might not have documents to produce showing things in joint names!

Whilst we are married and will have no issues with stat decs, photo evidence and proving we know everything about each other etc, we dont have any joint bills, tenancy agreements, bank accounts or anything. We met here and lived together for the first year as an unmarried couple. We were considering the prospective marriage visa at one point however didnt want to put a timeframe on it. We therefore decided to get married on a visit to Australia 2 years ago (Jan 09) and have a big proper wedding later on so family and friends could attend. (Sept 10). We always planned on apply for a spouse visa later when we decided to move back. That time is now as we have had enough of Dubai, but the information and application requirements are so overwhelming and I too am worried about being able to produce adequate documents when we have lived in an Islamic country with a fair amount red tape in something so simple in another country like having your name on the lease agreement, joint bank accounts etc. We came here unmarried as induviduals and opened our own accounts. He was always here so had sorted the tenancy agreement, his own bank account etc.

We are married now and have lived together for over 3 years and are a couple in every sense of the word however we didnt bother getting joint accounts or anything as it was always set up and things like this are just impossble in this country and not worth the trouble. I just hope this could be portrayed to immigration without looking like we arent committed and integrated into each others lives.

Would you consider visiting Australia, getting married (maybe having a big wedding later for family/friends like we did) and then returning to Dubai and applying for a spouse visa? This might be a better option if you are concerned about living together in an islamic country as an unmarried couple, it might take some of the pressure off.

So much red tape here! To live here you spend all your time trying to hide that you are in a relationship to stay on the right side of the law whereas to apply to live in Australia you have to do everything to prove you are in a relationship! I always dreaded this day and am mindful of the work ahead of us! interested in hearing from anyone else living in a country with similar laws and what other documents we could provide as evidence.

All the best and do stay in touch and let me know how your application is going,


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Old 01-22-2011, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n_jonck View Post
Hi All
I have read through most of the De Facto posts and it seems that everyone has more or less the same concerns about providing enough evidence to support their applications. I would like to post my situation simply because I have not seen any similar posts on here, which may make this one unique. Hopefully your response to this post will not only help me but also others with similar situations in the future.

I have met my partner in the United Arab Emirates. She the sponser, I'm from good old South Africa. Long story short, it's illegal for unmarried couples to live together here. (How you can stay in a hotel as an unmarried couple is beyond me) We do however live together like everyone else. The police tend to turn a blind eye towards westerners; however people have been caught in the past. (Raids on shared accommodation of 2008-09 if anyone is familiar with the Dubai) I would however never put her name on the any of the bills or the rental contract simply not to draw attention to the fact that we are unmarried and living together. Maximum penalty is jail if being caught. Having a shared bank account is impossible. You have to be married.

How do we go about providing enough information that we have been living together? Will this be considered a special case?

Thanks
My situation is similar. Two years ago my Egyptian partner and I lived together for 5 months. (I'm Australian) Then for the past 13 months we've lived together in Egypt again but we could not get any evidence of this. Each time I have visited him in Egypt and spent time here we have got an unofficial marriage contract called an "orfi" marriage contract which stops us getting into trouble with the police. Tonight the owner of the flat we are renting has agreed to give us a statement tomorrow saying he has let the flat to us both for a year. Is this enough along with 3 of his relatives' statements saying that they consider us to be a couple?.....or should we apply for the PMV because less evidence is required for that? I have to go back to Oz for my job next week so we'd better get our act together soon.


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Old 01-22-2011, 10:18 PM
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Other documents we are getting a lawyer to help us with are wills and joint ownership of property here in Egypt.


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Old 01-22-2011, 10:33 PM
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Wanderer how do you think we could get information from the Cairo Aust Embassy about how much evidence is required to prove a defacto relationship? I can get a stat dec from the owner of the flat we rented. My bank account shows withdrawals of cash from an ATM and bank but doesn't say what it's for and my partner gets paid cash so never useshis bank account. We also have stat decs from relatives and friends.


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Old 01-23-2011, 01:13 AM
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There's quite a long thread you may have seen Julie on rejections @ Cairo, people from Morocco being involved too for they use Cairo and one thing mentioned by one of the posters is that they were asked why they did not have a big marriage which in itself is stretching things a bit for not everybody even gets married these days and the defacto partner visa is there for exactly that.

I do not know the full detail of applications nor whether the attitude in Cairo is that without that, the relationship is not considered authentic and I even mentioned on that thread that perhaps immi officers there look at history for that part of the planet.
You've been there for over 12 months and it would be even better if your landlord was able to make his statement as more a lease document, however informal.
Certainly having property interests together should help.

It is difficult to get information out of Immi and even if you are able to get an appointment with someone more senior than the front desk people and assessors and even if they are prepared to offer some guidance, you are probably not going to get a yes or no out of them and they do rely on those handling the cases, not just to do their job but also in maintaining good relationships so the place does run smoothly.
If anything, an attempt to bypass a CO may have an adverse effect.

Perhaps, the best approach in your case may be to be up front and see if you can get an appointment with their CO in Cairo or one of them, perhaps you are put on to their senior assessment officer - say you have read of dificulties many people do face and that your partner was scared off at a previous time and be clear about how the renting of a flat there does not involve leases and utility bills etc. [ which the local people ought to be aware of ] but do mention the property you have together and hopefully you do have some ownership documentation.
Mention your " orf " marriage and how you have not arranged an Egyptian marriage for whatever reasoning and just be factual and clear and hope for a clear indication.

The other thing you ought to look at too is that the partner visa is not likely to be any quicker than a PMV and so with the time you have known oneanother if that is something you have thought about, why not remove as much of the doubt as you can in going with a PMV.
Sure it means a second application in Australia but that's a small commitment to get greater certainty.
Best wishes




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Old 12-10-2011, 07:27 AM
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For those who are interested, we issued our application and were 100% honest about our situation. We explained the lack of evidence due to the law here in Dubai. My whole application process took 3 weeks after my initial follow up with my case officer. Visa granted.

"How do you like me now" Stoked!!!!!

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Old 01-29-2012, 01:45 AM
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