Partner Migration query??? Opinions sought...

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Partner Migration query??? Opinions sought...


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Old 04-13-2011, 03:12 PM
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Partner Migration query??? Opinions sought...

I'm interested to know what people's thoughts or experiences are of the following:-

How does IMMI view an application for PMV when a couple could be living together (i.e. there are no visa, citizenship, immigration restrictions that prevent this or any other significant life factors), just that one person in the couple decided that they no longer wanted to stay living in the same country as the other person.

I know that they are aware that there are some circumstances where couples are not able to stay living together for reason mentioned above (i.e. no leave to remain in the country, etc) but how do the view a situation where the couple could be living in the same country, as a defacto but have chosen not to?

Does anyone know of any similar situations?


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Old 04-13-2011, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anoni View Post
I'm interested to know what people's thoughts or experiences are of the following:-

How does IMMI view an application for PMV when a couple could be living together (i.e. there are no visa, citizenship, immigration restrictions that prevent this or any other significant life factors), just that one person in the couple decided that they no longer wanted to stay living in the same country as the other person.

I know that they are aware that there are some circumstances where couples are not able to stay living together for reason mentioned above (i.e. no leave to remain in the country, etc) but how do the view a situation where the couple could be living in the same country, as a defacto but have chosen not to?

Does anyone know of any similar situations?
I asked this question to Immigration before I left my home country to be with my partner. I was told that the circumstances would have to be beyond both your control. So in other words if there is no valid or strong reason that you can't be together, they will not accept that your partner just wants to leave because they don't like your home country or whatever reason like that. It will go against your application if and when you make one. I had to resign from a really good job.. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made in order to reap what you sow...


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Old 04-13-2011, 09:59 PM
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Thanks for your feedback. It's not my predicament, but someone known to me. The applicant is currently applying for PMV from the UK, the sponsor has dual citizenship for Australia & UK and left the UK some months back to return to Australia, as he prefers to live in Australia, not for any other reason regarding visas, etc that are beyond their control. My understanding is that the relationship was not very stable (i.e. not sufficent to satisfy the 'ongoing' conditions of the de facto visa) at the time the 'sponsor' returned. Some months before they had previously been living together and had moved out from living with each other to separate accommodation. Now they have decided they want to apply for the PMV so the applicant can live in Australia, but there is no reason why the sponsor couldn't return to live in the UK aside from that he doesn't like it there. The applicant is very confident that this won't be seen as a problem in applying for the PMV and even before applying for the visa has purchased flights, which IMMI obviously advise against until the visa is finalised. My sense of the situation is that this could cause a problem but the applicant does not seem to think this will be an issue so it is interesting to hear your thoughts on this.


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Old 04-13-2011, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Anoni View Post
Thanks for your feedback. It's not my predicament, but someone known to me. The applicant is currently applying for PMV from the UK, the sponsor has dual citizenship for Australia & UK and left the UK some months back to return to Australia, as he prefers to live in Australia, not for any other reason regarding visas, etc that are beyond their control. My understanding is that the relationship was not very stable (i.e. not sufficent to satisfy the 'ongoing' conditions of the de facto visa) at the time the 'sponsor' returned. Some months before they had previously been living together and had moved out from living with each other to separate accommodation. Now they have decided they want to apply for the PMV so the applicant can live in Australia, but there is no reason why the sponsor couldn't return to live in the UK aside from that he doesn't like it there. The applicant is very confident that this won't be seen as a problem in applying for the PMV and even before applying for the visa has purchased flights, which IMMI obviously advise against until the visa is finalised. My sense of the situation is that this could cause a problem but the applicant does not seem to think this will be an issue so it is interesting to hear your thoughts on this.
WoW... that's very bold to go and purchase a/line tickets.... Has your friend actually read the requirements for a Partner/De facto visa??? If not, I suggest they read the booklet. They are pretty strict (DIAC) on what they will be 'satisfied' with with regards to a De facto r/ship. 1st major requirement is you must have or lived together for at least 12 months. Then there is the financial aspect, shared bills, leases, shared bank accounts, you name it... As I said, I couldn't stay in Australia - well in my relationship I was the one who was a little more flexilbe to move. I had to make the move to Canada, to which I have not enjoyed living her for the last 1 and 4months, but it had to be done, to show that we were committed.

I guess your friend is in for a major disappointment. But do tell them to read the booklet for partner migration...

It's a lot of preparation that goes into these applications, trust me we've done it and in the process of waiting for the DIAC to approve... and we've crossed our 'T's and dotted our 'i's.

Goodluck!


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Old 04-14-2011, 07:38 AM
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Hi Rygen,

I was thinking some more about my response after I sent it last night and I guess the one thing that i didn't really say is I agree entirely with what you're saying and I don't really have any sympathy for this person (to call them a friend is a bit of a stretch of the imagination to be honest).

My concern in this regard is heighten, as, because like you, my partner and I have also been going through the route of partner migration. We've endured a lot of difficulty and upheavel in the past 3 years to be together (we've both have had to move countries to be able to live together, had periods of separation beyond our control and unfortunately given the economic situation had had periods where one of us has been out of work for long periods and this has been a major drain on our finances and, as i'm sure you can imagine, a stress on the relationship). But of course, like you say, if the relationship is of the utmost importance to you then you do these things.

So then, it becomes very frustrating when you see someone so cocky and confident that they will get the visa without any difficulty, that they book their flight before even submitting the application.

And of course I can see if the application was for the De Facto visa that they would scrutinise this very closely if there is nothing restricting the 2 people living together but they had decided to live separately, but the applicant seems to think nothing of the fact that they could be living together (albeit in a country that both of them would rather not be living in, but then it's not really about having your pick of where you want to live in my opinion) and as such seems to see the Prospective Marriage Visa as a way around this.

I know a lot of my issue with this is borne out of my knowing that my partner and I have been through a lot of stress to be together that we would otherwise have not had but at least I know that we've done things by the book and hopefully we'll reap the rewards of that and maintain our integrity in the process.


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Old 04-14-2011, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Anoni View Post
Hi Rygen,

I was thinking some more about my response after I sent it last night and I guess the one thing that i didn't really say is I agree entirely with what you're saying and I don't really have any sympathy for this person (to call them a friend is a bit of a stretch of the imagination to be honest).

My concern in this regard is heighten, as, because like you, my partner and I have also been going through the route of partner migration. We've endured a lot of difficulty and upheavel in the past 3 years to be together (we've both have had to move countries to be able to live together, had periods of separation beyond our control and unfortunately given the economic situation had had periods where one of us has been out of work for long periods and this has been a major drain on our finances and, as i'm sure you can imagine, a stress on the relationship). But of course, like you say, if the relationship is of the utmost importance to you then you do these things.

So then, it becomes very frustrating when you see someone so cocky and confident that they will get the visa without any difficulty, that they book their flight before even submitting the application.

And of course I can see if the application was for the De Facto visa that they would scrutinise this very closely if there is nothing restricting the 2 people living together but they had decided to live separately, but the applicant seems to think nothing of the fact that they could be living together (albeit in a country that both of them would rather not be living in, but then it's not really about having your pick of where you want to live in my opinion) and as such seems to see the Prospective Marriage Visa as a way around this.

I know a lot of my issue with this is borne out of my knowing that my partner and I have been through a lot of stress to be together that we would otherwise have not had but at least I know that we've done things by the book and hopefully we'll reap the rewards of that and maintain our integrity in the process.
I wouldn't let it get to you.. If they have the attitude that they can just get married and get a visa, they are going to be dreadfully disappointed. They scrutinize applicants even more with a 'Marriage Visa'... They will have to Satisfy DIAC with the same eligibility criteria with a 'Prospective Marriage Visa' as the same as a 'Partner/De facto' visa - which includes such as living together (min 12mnths), joint finances, everything!... It's going to be a very expensive and waste of time for them. No doubt... If only it could be that easy!


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Old 04-14-2011, 06:55 PM
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As far as I am aware, the PMV does not require a couple to have lived together continuously for 12 months. That is why this visa option exists in the first place. The sponsor could argue that he went to Australia to settle first (get a job, house etc) before his partner would make the big move. Very obviously, the partner could not join the sponsor in Australia because she doesn't have a valid visa.

I guess relationships are different, while some people chose to live together no matter the cost, others don't mind time apart. In my opinion, their visa application has a good chance of being approved


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Old 04-14-2011, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Lisa84 View Post
As far as I am aware, the PMV does not require a couple to have lived together continuously for 12 months. That is why this visa option exists in the first place. The sponsor could argue that he went to Australia to settle first (get a job, house etc) before his partner would make the big move. Very obviously, the partner could not join the sponsor in Australia because she doesn't have a valid visa.

I guess relationships are different, while some people chose to live together no matter the cost, others don't mind time apart. In my opinion, their visa application has a good chance of being approved
I will agree with you on one thing Lisa84, and that is all r/ships are different... but the same rules apply to everyone when trying to get their 'loved' ones to migrate to their country either on a Partner or Marriage visa. With a Prospective Marriage Visa it is even more scrutinized due to the fact that DIAC don't just allow this process to be 'easier' on people who thought it more convenient to marry for the sake of getting a visa.. they are little more sensitive to the granting of this visa - As I've been told Marriage alone will most definitely guarantee a visa grant. Gosh, if we could all just get in on a Marriage Visa there would be no point in having to go through other avenues/visa's...

I totally disagree with you when you say 'Their visa has a good chance of being approved'.... on what basis? they will have to show why they haven't lived together.. and for that reason alone as I said to 'Anoni' it has to be for circumstances out of their control.. not just for the simple reason the sponsor didn't like living in London... DIAC will just laugh at that one.


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Old 04-14-2011, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Rygen View Post
I will agree with you on one thing Lisa84, and that is all r/ships are different... but the same rules apply to everyone when trying to get their 'loved' ones to migrate to their country either on a Partner or Marriage visa. With a Prospective Marriage Visa it is even more scrutinized due to the fact that DIAC don't just allow this process to be 'easier' on people who thought it more convenient to marry for the sake of getting a visa.. they are little more sensitive to the granting of this visa - As I've been told Marriage alone will most definitely guarantee a visa grant. Gosh, if we could all just get in on a Marriage Visa there would be no point in having to go through other avenues/visa's...

I totally disagree with you when you say 'Their visa has a good chance of being approved'.... on what basis? they will have to show why they haven't lived together.. and for that reason alone as I said to 'Anoni' it has to be for circumstances out of their control.. not just for the simple reason the sponsor didn't like living in London... DIAC will just laugh at that one.
Correction - 'As I've been told Marriage alone will most definitely NOT guarantee a visa grant'.


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Old 04-14-2011, 09:51 PM
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I absolutely agree with you both in saying that every relationship is different and as such I guess each case is assessed on its individual merits and of course this is a good thing as it would be a pity if cases were assessed based on stereotypes and generalisations.

And i can appreciate the need for the PMV, as some people find themselves in the circumstances where they have met and commenced a relationship but for whatever reasons can not maintain the condition of living together for a minimum of 12 months (maybe, for example due to visa issues) or in fact may not be in a position where they are able to realistically live together at all and as such if they make a choice that they think the relationship is serious enough, they make a decision to marry. I know of a friend who was in this circumstance and for her the PMV was the only realistic, long term option for her and her now husband so they could be together. But of course also if people did not have to demonstrate significant commitment to the relationship, similar to that required of the De Facto, then of course, wouldn't we all go off and apply for the PMV.

What I’m unsure about is how do immi/diac view circumstances where a couple COULD be living together as a de facto couple (i.e. there are no visa, citizenship or restrictions to work or significant compassionate reasons why they are living separately), choose not to and see the PMV as the way around this. Surely if the relationship is of the utmost important and there are no restrictions on the couple living together, the choice to life apart must reflect badly on such an application. I would have thought that, similar to Rygen's thinking this would be seen as a negative thing in the relationship. Surely it doesn't show the required level of commitment to the relationship. But then i guess, similar to how each relationship is different, so too are each of the case officers and maybe some would see this same circumstances differently.

One thing I’ve learnt is that relationships take work and they don't just maintain themselves. They require input from both parties to make them work and often this can be hard at the best of times. Combine this to the additional stress that couples go through when they have to be separated for reasons beyond their control and the emotional investment in undertaking a relationship with someone who is from another country and the inherent issues of having to apply for visas, leave to remain or however you want to refer to it is a huge undertaking, but one that a huge number of people undertake because they are committed first and foremost to their partner and the relationship they have together. The idea of a couple having the 'luxury' of one going ahead to Australia to get settled in while the other stays back, while not having even tested the relationship to see if in fact they are compatible enough to maintain a long term relationship before even applying for a visa seemed a bit far fetched to me. It's like saying I want all the perks of a relationship but don't want to do any of the hard work that goes with it.

The other issue in this situation is that the applicant is claiming that the couple had been living together immediately prior to the sponsor returning to Australia (they had not been living together for at least 6 months prior) and in fact were actually separated at the time (which surely if this was disclosed in the application would not show commitment to an ongoing relationship) and only recently re-commenced the relationship and decided to apply for the PMV. I'm not sure what, if any, documentation they have to attempt to substantiate this. It all sounds a bit of a sham to me but that's just my opinion I guess. And hard to know if the case officer will see this for what it is.

It's just interesting to get other people's views of this. Thanks for your input guys!!


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