ethical question re someone's visa - Page 3

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ethical question re someone's visa - Page 3


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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Engaus View Post
He doesn't have to last two years if a child is involved! If they have a child together he can get PR based on that and then doesn't have to be in a relationship with her for two years. This is exactly what I mentioned in an earlier post.

There is SO much partner visa fraud and every time someone does something like this is makes it so much harder for genuine couples. Look at what the UK have done to their spouse visa requirements because of visa fraud - they have taken drastic measures that effectively rip families apart. This might be the kind of system we will have if people continue to submit fraudulent applications. And then it effects a lot more children and partners and families which will be forced to live apart. We have to look at the bigger picture.

So, in my opinion, if you have evidence OP report the relationship. If it's before he is applying for PR immi may even just be more thorough with looking at their 801 application.
If his PR is guaranteed because of the child then what would be the poit of dobbing him in? The investigation will just take time and resources away from processing other applications.

If his PR is not guaranteed, then my points stand. Again, why would he harm his prospects of PR with only a few months to go, if that was all he was in it for?

Just look at the replies in this thread. The OP merely suggested she SUSPECTED he was ingenuine, - without even stating why, - and everyone jumped all over it like it was a fact. Maybe he was a shitty partner. Maybe they argued a lot and the OP feels angry towards him for hurting her friend. Understandable, but that is NOT the same thing as a fraudulent marriage.

This is not a game and a dob in is not something to be taken lightly. It has the potential to destroy somebody's life. If you're going to do it, you'd better be damn sure.

And, if the Australian partner hasn't dobbed him in then perhaps there is a good reason why! In any case, anything the OP does should not be done behind her friend's back.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2014, 11:41 AM
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But OP stated theyre not in good terms and not together? I had to be in good terms when I applied for my 801 and certainly had to be together. And ofc it has to be a genuine and continuing too (Immi clearly states that). I love Australia I actually wouldnt want anyone to cheat on their system to take advantage.

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Originally Posted by sez57 View Post
... but I know for certain that they have not been together for a few months before or even on good terms. They haven't done anything about it and he is still here, but I think they have already applied for permanent but it is still procesing...


  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2014, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JO_2012 View Post
If his PR is guaranteed because of the child then what would be the poit of dobbing him in? The investigation will just take time and resources away from processing other applications.

If his PR is not guaranteed, then my points stand. Again, why would he harm his prospects of PR with only a few months to go, if that was all he was in it for?
Because if the application was fraudulent from the beginning as the OP seems to suggest then it's possibly a different story.

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Originally Posted by JO_2012 View Post
Just look at the replies in this thread. The OP merely suggested she SUSPECTED he was ingenuine, - without even stating why, - and everyone jumped all over it like it was a fact. Maybe he was a shitty partner. Maybe they argued a lot and the OP feels angry towards him for hurting her friend. Understandable, but that is NOT the same thing as a fraudulent marriage.
I don't think that the OP suggested that this person is her 'friend'? Simply a person she knows and I never suggest that she contact immigration without evidence. I certainly don't think people should go around "dobbing" people in without any evidence - I feel that's quite an obvious requirement. And i'm not trying to encourage anyone to make any rash decisions, I was simply trying to explain why I feel it's important that people who break the law making a fraudulent application are reported - regardless of their situation because it could make life very hard for other people down the line - as I'm experiencing right now having to be separated from my partner who is in the UK (perhaps why I'm so passionate about the subject ).

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2014, 02:16 PM
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Thanks everyone. To be honest I would prefer to report because in my opinion he does not deserve to stay, the way in which they got their visa is quite suspicious as well and I know this affects other people wishing for their partners to immigrate and I am very sympathetic to that. What really makes this a hard decision though is that if he was sent back and she decided to go to his country to let him see his child, then he would legally be able to claim the child and prevent it from leaving the country with the mother (these are the laws in his country). So it could be pretty serious, I am not sure I could wish that on any mother.
To be honest I don't support fraud because my hubby is still waiting for his visa and it breaks my heart to be away from him. But for real what's in it for you if you report them to DIBP? Have you known the sponsor or applicant for a long time ? Or you are just pop nosing? Why report them now? Why didn't you do it when the applicant first arrive into the country ? To be honest I want to understand why. Couples have problems but don't get involved until you know what's going on behind closed doors. Unless you live with them and even that you still don't know what they say to each other in their bedroom.

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Old 10-31-2014, 04:45 PM
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I think everyone should realise that it in Australia it is not only your moral but your legal obligation to report ANY suspected crime, in this case possible fraud.
To paraphrase the old adage ,all that is necessary for wrong to succeed is for good people to say nothing.
As other posters have said the DIBP won't kick him out on your say so but will examine the case in depth.

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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2014, 06:01 PM
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I think everyone should realise that it in Australia it is not only your moral but your legal obligation to report ANY suspected crime, in this case possible fraud.
To paraphrase the old adage ,all that is necessary for wrong to succeed is for good people to say nothing.
As other posters have said the DIBP won't kick him out on your say so but will examine the case in depth.
aussiesteve trust me I don't support fraud and will never . But when I read the OP message over and over I believe her decision to contact DIBP is based on feelings not facts . I'm sure the couple is having marriage problems and OP thinks its the end of the world. OP said she has always thought the sponsor used her friend for visa purposes but why report it when they're going towards the road of PR? Why didn't she report it 6months to 1 year after the sponsor got into the country ?

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Old 10-31-2014, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by EDT View Post

aussiesteve trust me I don't support fraud and will never . But when I read the OP message over and over I believe her decision to contact DIBP is based on feelings not facts . I'm sure the couple is having marriage problems and OP thinks its the end of the world. OP said she has always thought the sponsor used her friend for visa purposes but why report it when they're going towards the road of PR? Why didn't she report it 6months to 1 year after the sponsor got into the country ?
Hi EDT, I agree she should have reported her suspicions at the start, but she does say that they are not living together at the moment, which if true would require them to self report to the DIBP

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2014, 11:16 PM
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So everyone is saying that it's just suspicion and feelings and why now - yes, I have had my suspicions and naturally related feelings for a long time but as someone else said that's no reason to dob someone in. I have now seen for certain and have evidence I could send. I have not acted prior to this because yes, before it was suspicion which could not be proved but now it is a fact I can back up. The relationship hs ended, she calls herself a single mother that doesn't seem like they're working things out.


  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2014, 11:24 PM
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What you have done is right not to do anything until you have evidence. Alot of people have suspicions of relationships not being genuine and no evidence but you have the evidence now which is what DIBP will require and I imagine they will also do their own investigations too.

Do you know if she has told Centrelink (if she gets parenting payments)? I imagine that DIBP will contact Centrelink and probably even the ATO to see if the spouse is being declared or not.

Thank you for doing the right thing.


  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2014, 11:28 PM
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And yes of course there are feelings involved, I won't say more than this but I am close to someone who has also been through partner visa, a genuine and loving couple, they were absolutely put through the ringer when they applied despite being together a really long time and giving a lot of evidence so it really offends me to see people like this quickly and without any effort get what they want and yet do not deserve, and then smugly end things when it's no longer convenient but keep all the benefits. I think a lot of you will agree being partner visa applicants.

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