Australia Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

ethical question re someone's visa

7K views 44 replies 18 participants last post by  Lisa.Scarlette 
#1 ·
Someone I know had her husband come out on a temporary partner visa and he has been here for two years (just recently passed) but I know for certain that they have not been together for a few months before or even on good terms. They haven't done anything about it and he is still here, but I think they have already applied for permanent but it is still procesing. I have always thought that he married her only to get into the country so I would have no problem reporting him to immigration but they have a small child. Obviously if the father gets deported for no longer being in a relationship with the mother then the child will not see his father again. What is the best thing to do?
 
#4 ·
Mish never said that. Read her post again. Of course there is a risk to the child, that risk being that he or she doesn't get to grow up knowing/seeing their father because of your actions. By all means report them if that's is what you feel is the right thing to do. But if I was you I would be certain that they are not trying to work things out, and that your information is correct before interfering. That's just my opinion. I would give a lot of thought to the consequence and how that will make you feel.
 
#5 ·
I didn't say that they haven't lied I said if you report them then they go about it the right way instead of lying.

There is no guarantee that he can get still get PR because of the child that is up to DIBP. DIBP do mention a few reasons why someone can still get PR if the relationship has broken down and having a child together is still one of them. They should have gone about it the right way and notified DIBP of the breakdown.

I actually heard a story recently that a guy went for citizenship and it was approved anyway before the ceremony they cancelled it as they had found out that they were separated when he got PR.
 
#8 ·
That's exactly what I was thinking. Why risk a kid's life who hasn't done anything and take away his/her right to be with the dad for the rest of their life. If you're not committing fraud, you can't be held accountable for it just because you know it.

Especially in this situation there is a kid involved, I'd stay away from it. As LizBee said, live and let live!
 
#7 ·
Ah ok sorry I misundertood and thanks for clarifying. Yes, it is something I have been thinking about for a while but have hesitated due to the potential effect on the child. Have been wavering between doing the right thing by the law and the right thing by the child, which are two different things in this case. If there is a risk that the child will lose his parent I will probably let it go. Was interested to see what people who have been through partner visas thought.
 
#9 ·
That is a choice that only you can make. By the sounds of it you didn't do a form 888.

The thing that is interesting is how everyone's opinion is different when a child is involved however unfortunately there are guys that get a girl pregnant for PR purposes too and the child never sees the father after PR is granted which can be hard too.

Of course you need to be 100% sure if/when you report because as with fraudulent relationships there are also people who report people to immigration because they are jealous.

I have a different opinion to others and that is law is law and it should be followed no matter what but then I work dealing with legislation and we can't just change the rules for someone with a child.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Agree with Mish. It's difficult, but the law is the law and it's still people like this that make partner visas so bloody hard to get!

I know of men who have come over here as Mish said, and got a girl pregnant because they knew it would mean them being able to stay in Australia and not having to wait out the 2 years with their partner.

But make sure your certain that there is fraud involved before making any reports
 
#12 ·
I too am on the side of the immigration laws. If his ties to the country are strong, he will probably get to stay anyway. But even if he stays there's no guarantee he'll be a good or involved dad, and there's also no reason he can't be a good and involved dad even if he lives in another country.
 
#13 ·
Thanks everyone. To be honest I would prefer to report because in my opinion he does not deserve to stay, the way in which they got their visa is quite suspicious as well and I know this affects other people wishing for their partners to immigrate and I am very sympathetic to that. What really makes this a hard decision though is that if he was sent back and she decided to go to his country to let him see his child, then he would legally be able to claim the child and prevent it from leaving the country with the mother (these are the laws in his country). So it could be pretty serious, I am not sure I could wish that on any mother.
 
#24 ·
To be honest I don't support fraud because my hubby is still waiting for his visa and it breaks my heart to be away from him. But for real what's in it for you if you report them to DIBP? Have you known the sponsor or applicant for a long time ? Or you are just pop nosing? Why report them now? Why didn't you do it when the applicant first arrive into the country ? To be honest I want to understand why. Couples have problems but don't get involved until you know what's going on behind closed doors. Unless you live with them and even that you still don't know what they say to each other in their bedroom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Becky26
#15 ·
If they actually still have 'genuine and ongoing' relationship, they should be able to prove it to immigration shouldnt they ? Thats the point of spouse visa. Immigration will have their own consideration because there is child(ren) involved.

I prefer being honest, everyone has to earn their visa.
 
#16 ·
Just remember that when/if you report them they don't automatically take your word for it. They would contact them and ask for additional proof and maybe even interview them. They would probably also contact all the people that made statements. I am unsure though if they tell them a complaint has been made or they investigate without telling them.

Is he from Lebanon? It sounds similar to what about Lebanon. You just have to hope that she doesn't go there if she decides to go and it gets to that stage.
 
#17 ·
Definitely not. What you are considering doing could have huge, HUGE implications for him, for his child, and for your friend as the mother of that child, if not his partner.

If he was only in it for the visa then why on earth would he let the relationship go before he got PR? That makes no sense.

You don't know their relationship. You have your suspicions but you don't KNOW. They could be trying to work it out.

Even if they're not, consider the possibility that he was genuine all along but it just didn't work out. Maybe SHE broke up with HIM. Don't jeopardize his chances of continuing the life he's started here by accusing him of things you don't know.

Don't even consider it unless you are certain beyond all reasonable doubt IMO. The potential good you're doing is significantly outweighed by the potential bad.

Even if you're sure, I think you should talk it through with your friend and encourage HER to dob him in, rather than go behind her back!
 
#18 ·
Definitely not. What you are considering doing could have huge, HUGE implications for him, for his child, and for your friend as the mother of that child, if not his partner.

If he was only in it for the visa then why on earth would he let the relationship go before he got PR? That makes no sense.

You don't know their relationship. You have your suspicions but you don't KNOW. They could be trying to work it out.

Even if they're not, consider the possibility that he was genuine all along but it just didn't work out. Maybe SHE broke up with HIM. Don't jeopardize his chances of continuing the life he's started here by accusing him of things you don't know.

Don't even consider it unless you are certain beyond all reasonable doubt IMO. The potential good you're doing is significantly outweighed by the potential bad.

Even if you're sure, I think you should talk it through with your friend and encourage HER to dob him in, rather than go behind her back!
He doesn't have to last two years if a child is involved! If they have a child together he can get PR based on that and then doesn't have to be in a relationship with her for two years. This is exactly what I mentioned in an earlier post.

There is SO much partner visa fraud and every time someone does something like this is makes it so much harder for genuine couples. Look at what the UK have done to their spouse visa requirements because of visa fraud - they have taken drastic measures that effectively rip families apart. This might be the kind of system we will have if people continue to submit fraudulent applications. And then it effects a lot more children and partners and families which will be forced to live apart. We have to look at the bigger picture.

So, in my opinion, if you have evidence OP report the relationship. If it's before he is applying for PR immi may even just be more thorough with looking at their 801 application.
 
#19 ·
I also agree with reporting him if you know for certain their relationship has broken down. DIBP will investigate whether he still qualifies for PR based on having a child of the relationship. But visa fraud should be fought as much as possible, and that will often require people to dob in those who try to apply based on reasons they aren't entitled.to.
 
#20 ·
There are lots of ifs and buts involved in this case. For the time being, they have mutually agreed to apply for PR and be involved with the kid. That is clearly the reason why they have not disclosed their relationship status to Immigration. But then there is another possibility that the father could decide to abandon the child at some later stage. This is entirely possible if you consider the path he picked to stay in Australia. So, as others have said, just make sure your facts are correct and do whatever feels right to you.
 
#22 ·
But OP stated theyre not in good terms and not together? I had to be in good terms when I applied for my 801 and certainly had to be together. And ofc it has to be a genuine and continuing too (Immi clearly states that). I love Australia I actually wouldnt want anyone to cheat on their system to take advantage.

... but I know for certain that they have not been together for a few months before or even on good terms. They haven't done anything about it and he is still here, but I think they have already applied for permanent but it is still procesing...
 
#25 ·
I think everyone should realise that it in Australia it is not only your moral but your legal obligation to report ANY suspected crime, in this case possible fraud.
To paraphrase the old adage ,all that is necessary for wrong to succeed is for good people to say nothing.
As other posters have said the DIBP won't kick him out on your say so but will examine the case in depth.
 
#26 ·
aussiesteve trust me I don't support fraud and will never . But when I read the OP message over and over I believe her decision to contact DIBP is based on feelings not facts . I'm sure the couple is having marriage problems and OP thinks its the end of the world. OP said she has always thought the sponsor used her friend for visa purposes but why report it when they're going towards the road of PR? Why didn't she report it 6months to 1 year after the sponsor got into the country ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Becky26
#28 ·
So everyone is saying that it's just suspicion and feelings and why now - yes, I have had my suspicions and naturally related feelings for a long time but as someone else said that's no reason to dob someone in. I have now seen for certain and have evidence I could send. I have not acted prior to this because yes, before it was suspicion which could not be proved but now it is a fact I can back up. The relationship hs ended, she calls herself a single mother that doesn't seem like they're working things out.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Well if you have everything you need to hand them over to DIBP on a silver platter then go for it.

But always remember all new marriages have problems especially for couples who did not live together prior to their big day.

Example : my next door neighbour'wife came on a spouse visa , one faithful evening as I was watching television I heard them having a big argument and in the process he slapped her. I felt so tempted to contact the police but again I said to myself I don't really know what's going on behind closed doors. So I let it go. And guess what ? The following day I saw them walking down street holding hands and kissing each other . Now imagined if I had contacted the police ? I would have looked like a fool because I don't know what's going on in their relationship

And remember one thing us women we complain too much . one silly little argument with our husband that's it we ring our best friend or go across to our next door neighbour to say everything. Without realising that we are ruining our private life. My mum always says: your marriage is like a dirty underway so learn to hide it until its clean

So if your facts are beyon suspecious take the chance to report them and come back with a follow up as I'm sure everyone here will love to know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Becky26
#29 ·
What you have done is right not to do anything until you have evidence. Alot of people have suspicions of relationships not being genuine and no evidence but you have the evidence now which is what DIBP will require and I imagine they will also do their own investigations too.

Do you know if she has told Centrelink (if she gets parenting payments)? I imagine that DIBP will contact Centrelink and probably even the ATO to see if the spouse is being declared or not.

Thank you for doing the right thing.
 
#30 ·
And yes of course there are feelings involved, I won't say more than this but I am close to someone who has also been through partner visa, a genuine and loving couple, they were absolutely put through the ringer when they applied despite being together a really long time and giving a lot of evidence so it really offends me to see people like this quickly and without any effort get what they want and yet do not deserve, and then smugly end things when it's no longer convenient but keep all the benefits. I think a lot of you will agree being partner visa applicants.
 
#31 ·
Having been through partner visas and also seeing people getting rejected because they were determined not to be in a genuine relationship even when they were I am a firm believer of doing things by the books and the law.

Now the 801's are taking longer to process and people getting put through the ringer and that is because of those that take advantage of the system and are getting a partner visa when they are not eligible for it.
 
#40 ·
I would definately report it. I know of two nigerians who got women pregnant ASAP (one not even his wife!) and they both left the relationship before they got p,r. One went to mrt (the cheating one) and cUse of the kid with the second woman ( who he quickly married after my friend divorced him) he was successful in his mrt hearing. After the hearing he left the second wife. The other case is going to mrt now and after having nothing whatsoever to do with his kid for 2 years he is suddenly rushing a custody hearing to use this solely for his mrt hearing. These cases make me sick to the stomach. I just heard a third nigerian whose older wife can't have a kid is already boasting to his friends he's only waiting on his pr so he can divorce her. I havnt heard of any other nationalities doing this so consistently (it's common tactic and the guys pass this info around) . I know of at least 3 other nigerians who have done this and it makes my blood boil. Those assholes are just scammers and this is outright marriage fraud. So I would have no hesitation ribbing them in.
 
#41 ·
Well not too surprise with Nigerians stories. Does not matter where they go they leave negative traces. And this end up affecting genuine Africans couples like us.
 
#44 · (Edited)
People think that couple might affect their "genuine" case and affect where they come from, so they report it.

Why they don't think by pointing out to immi, they actually tell immi that hey, that couple is not genuine and they come from abc country. Then immi just tick 1 more case to the their black list, time to time that country will become high risk country.

Not even I question you how do you sure they are fake while both of them are commit to each other ( not report 1 another, the girl/your friend/your neighbour/your competitor in this case is not a dull). So I suggest you do your business and let them manage their biz and their life.

People do such thing must be jealous for whatever reason, or have nothing to do in their life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top